Effects on Candida

[percyval577]

I suspect that a fungal overgrowth is the underlying cause of my ME/CFS, maybe not the direct cause. It seems that it is a Saccharomycus, a sugar fungus (which uses sugar to buid up its cell walls), with most reknown Candida Albicans. Things that I observed:

• "Luckily" I was so stupid to cause myself an athletic foot (presumably to be rather severe), so I can observe effects, and are not bound solely to my neurological feelings (which is interesting as well, and maybe important as well).
• I suffer from Rosacea, which is to my knowledge of unknown cause. It seems that my Rosacea since begin of my low manganese diet has "changed" into a fungal infection, especially on that side I use to sleep on. But first it vanished completely for three months, but then came back with my neurological symptoms which though vanish very slowly over the course years. On the side I sleep also my hair is white, presumably the stem cells have gone extinct because of fighting fungus.
• The first sign of Rosacea appeared after antibiotic treatment against borrelia, when I was end of my twenties. A tiny red patch under the eye on the side I sleep on. Half a year after the abx I had some unpleasant neuropsychatric symptoms (luckily I was intelligent not to go to a doctor, instead didn´t stop university). Now I think that they appeared in the course of season, in my case therefore begin of spring. They vanished late autumn.
• Two years ago my bathroom got finally completely ill, and I could not shower anymore for two years. Immediately I discovered red points on my leg. They have gone now since I restricted sugar and starch, despite I managed not to change the bedding (as I didn´t manage this to do in the past, and due to other rather special circumstances).
• I suddenly got ugly gum issues - a few months after my then severe rosacea suddenly had appeared. This was subsequent of a change in diet, beans instead of meat, so rich in manganese, and even including sugar. I ve made already a manganese thread on Manganese and Pathogens, where yeast is linked.
• Caffeine in coffee (not in tea) seems to be a bad influence on my gum.
• Recently my GP asked since when I have this fungus in the littel nail my right foot. Interestingly this I ever had, to my knowledge, confirmed by my mother.

In this thread, I want to (slowly) gather literature on influences on the growths of Saccharomyces, most notably on Albicans.

---
This night I happened to drink a lot of black tea. It appears that it wasn´t a good idea, foot wise.

Structural Alteration in Candida Albicans by Caffeine and Caffeine Salts
Mittag 1994

Cytological alterations of Candida albicans following exposure to subinhibitory concentrations of caffeine and caffeine salts were examined by light and transmission electron microscopy (TEM). The effect was different from that induced by ketoconazole. Caffeine and especially caffeine salts caused an increase in unusual modes of proliferation with signs of multiple budding in Candida albicans. Structurally, such yeast cells present some resemblance to Paracoccidioides brasiliensis.

The article lists this interesting looking literature:

• Effects of subinhibitory concentrations of ketoconazole on in vitro adherence of Candida albicans to vaginal epithelial cells. Sobel JD, Obedeanu N.Eur J Clin Microbiol. 1983 Oct;2(5):445-52. doi: 10.1007/bf02013902.PMID: 6315422
• Recombinagenicity of caffeine for Candida albicans.
• Sarachek A, Henderson LA.Mycopathologia. 1990 May;110(2):63-76. doi: 10.1007/bf00446993.PMID: 2195351
• The effect of cinnamaldehyde on the growth and the morphology of Candida albicans.
  Taguchi Y, Hasumi Y, Abe S, Nishiyama Y.Med Mol Morphol. 2013 Mar;46(1):8-13. doi: 10.1007/s00795-012-0001-0. Epub 2013 Jan 17.PMID: 23325549
• Action of chlorhexidine on budding Candida albicans: scanning and transmission electron microscopic study.
  Bobichon H, Bouchet P.Mycopathologia. 1987 Oct;100(1):27-35. doi: 10.1007/bf00769565.PMID: 3317060
• Cytological aspects of dimorphism in Candida albicans.
  Gow NA, Gooday GW.Crit Rev Microbiol. 1987;15(1):73-8. doi: 10.3109/10408418709104449.PMID: 3319423 Review.

 

[percyval577]

I think my ME/CFS is:

symbiosis ..... <-> ..... immune function ..... <-> ..... neurological function ​

This might in a vague manner explain why candida albicans - which is a normal inhabitant of the human body - might be wrongly regulated, as well as might be an inducer of a wrong regulations, others and its own one.

 

[percyval577]

I found that vinegar surprisingly helps. I got the tip from the internet, very good tip.

I tried to find a rationale, but didn´t succeed so far. I guess, there is a symbiotic behaviour, related to the rebuilding (of parts of) the body. It would be very unclear here:

Role of acetate metabolism in the virulence of Candida albicans
Lorenz, 2010? NIH

The yeast Candida albicans is the most important fungal pathogen of humans and can infect virtually any body site, highlighting a remarkable adaptability that allows it to thrive in widely disparate conditions. Mortality is higher than in comparable bacterial infections, partly due to serious deficiencies in diagnostic and treatment options.

The projects outlined here derive from a comprehensive genomic analysis of the response of C. albicans to phagocytosis by macrophages, a key antifungal cell type, in which a massive metabolic reorganization accompanies a well-studied morphogenetic program. We have focused on the metabolic changes, which are centered on the key intermediate acetyl-CoA and have shown that mutations in several genes important in the production, consumption or transport of this compound reduce virulence in a mouse model of disseminated candidiasis.

Together these studies have shown that C. albicans finds and uses non-preferred carbon sources during infection. Consistent with its unique ecological niche as a mammalian commensal, the regulatory networks that govern the metabolic pathways necessary to assimilate such compounds are significantly different than those in the related, but non-pathogenic, yeast Saccharomyces cerevisiae.

Further, we have evidence that these metabolic changes also directly affect processes conventionally thought to be more central to virulence, such as filamentation and pH regulation. In particular, we find that C. albicans can actively change extracellular pH to a dramatic degree (up to 3 units) and hypothesize that that this occurs within the mammalian phagolysosome as a protective measure.

We propose here studies to understand acetyl-CoA homeostasis as it relates to virulence, pH modulation, and morphogenesis and outline experiments to decipher how C. albicans has adapted the regulation of alternative carbon utilization to meet its in vivo needs.

 

[roller]

perhaps the vinegar changes pH?
if vinegar does good, maybe turpentine would be useful, too?
they drop it on a sugar cube, i think.
the best vinegar is imo white wine vinegar, may make a difference...

 

[kurt]

perhaps the vinegar changes pH?
if vinegar does good, maybe turpentine would be useful, too?
they drop it on a sugar cube, i think.
the best vinegar is imo white wine vinegar, may make a difference...

Apple cider vinegar is proven to be anti-fungal, works against Candida. Don't know about white wine vinegar, does that have sugar?

For cider against Candida, see:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5788933/

 

[kurt]

I suspect that a fungal overgrowth is the underlying cause of my ME/CFS, maybe not the direct cause. It seems that it is a Saccharomycus, a sugar fungus (which uses sugar to buid up its cell walls), with most reknown Candida Albicans.

Have you considered that fungal infection like athlete's foot probably indicates a global problem with fungal regulation? I would look at the gut as well.

I totally agree with your suspicion, and think a subset of ME/CFS might be the result of a complex gut fungal problem, due to the specific toxins Candida Albicans can produce there. I'm blogging on that now, and will post some research references you might find interesting in my next post (hopefully soon).

 

[percyval577]

Have you considered that fungal infection like athlete's foot probably indicates a global problem with fungal regulation?

Absolutely. Sometimes now I get a white powder in the grooves of my hands or foots, I suspect it´s the yeast form of a candida. It seems also that my rosacea was a response to a fungus, I think that the fungus is actively allowed to grow, and then must be fought as well, and the rosacea was a sign of this fight. When I started my low manganese diet the rosacea was absent for more than three months, now there are clearly dots, obviously fungal reinfetions. I get flares in my hands (which don´t respond to an antifungal, though mostly to vinegar 7.5%).

The dermatologist was not able to make any considerations on these observations or visible facts.


I think that these phenomenons may get away - to name one influence - when I further progress with my low manganese diet, as I had, in its course, also heart and blood pressure issues which totally went away. So I think that in some sense this is a transient phenomenon, caused by too much of an allowance (and here I think that the nerve structures nucleus caudatus and thalamus are key).

On the other hand, a fungal overgrowth may cause these structures to allow the fungus not to be fought, and here an influence may be possible as well. In my case it even could be understood how the fungus got more weight (manganese from borrelia, antibiotics), though may also have been a predisposition.

It might be that a simple overgrowth would be known to cause ME, as it were a simple relationship. So there is some chance that the thing is more complicate (systemic illness). On the other hand, fungal infections are known to be tough.

I would look at the gut as well.

This might be, I have to do now anyway, as my chaos caused me even further infection here, announcing itself by a lot of wind, which is not nice. So I just began to eat fermented stuff, which works, or hopefully slowly works (on the long run). As soon as I figured out things, I think, I will ask a doctor for additional help, but will need to go to private one (so will need to pay it on my own).


This point of an elevated infection only now, may indicate that the symptoms are not simply a 1:1 response to an infection. I spent 1.5 years to figure put how to re-tune my brain (caudatus and thalamus, as I think with at least some arguments). If this will turn out to be important remains to be seen, maybe all the effort was mainly in vain, and good influences could be understood with actions on a fungus.

Most clear is so far, however, that my ME is manganese dependent. And I went five years in the wrong direction, getting worse and worse, and now it took five years to reverse it, what ever this may indicate, problems with fungus, brain, or both.

 

[kurt]

Most clear is so far, however, that my ME is manganese dependent. And I went five years in the wrong direction, getting worse and worse, and now it took five years to reverse it, what ever this may indicate, problems with fungus, brain, or both.

This is fascinating since manganese starvation is one of the ways a host defends against fungus. Is that the reason you are restricting manganese? I think manganese modulating symptoms supports a fungal involvement. And some fungal toxins can get right into the brain if they get into blood.

 

[roller]

Sometimes now I get a white powder in the grooves of my hands or foots, I suspect it´s the yeast form of a candida.

cant your dermatologist test this substance?

could it be chitin, which is part of (some) fungi ?
fungi need it to build their cell walls.

chitin is not produced by humans (faik)
chitin in the body can have a number of reasons, not only fungal infection. i think in MS multiple sclerosis they also found a lot of chitin in some study, when i remember right.

chitin inhibitors (e.g. lufenuron) may help against fungal infections.
also, increasing the human chitin degrading enzymes (chitinases), but not sure if this is really possible.

perhaps you could have chitin levels measured in the blood?

 

[percyval577]

This is fascinating since manganese starvation is one of the ways a host defends against fungus. Is that the reason you are restricting manganese? I think manganese modulating symptoms supports a fungal involvement. And some fungal toxins can get right into the brain if they get into blood.

The original consideration was that manganese would serve borrelia. And this still might be valid in some sense, as they have been shown to accumulate tremendous huge amounts of this metal, and I remember that my first, rather tiny ME, or pre-ME, started after having had at least two ticks. So I thought that an acute infection with borrelia would cause my symptoms.

But after I had done my low manganese diet for two years, my symptoms suddenly worsened a bit and for a short time, after having been in contact with some fungus on a fish, as the taste announced. So I thought that rather not an infection is the problem but something involving a hypersensitivity. This brought me up to the theory of changes of some brain function, a sort of pre-manganism, or a time and dose dependent mechanism involving inducible nitric oxide synthase.

And now, after having delved into brain stuff as far as possible, I am back to infection, but with fungus this time. Aguire et al 2013 say that borrelia are able to accumulate two times of magnitude more manganese than yeast - but yeasts are already cells which contain much manganese.

 

[percyval577]

This short paper investigated if and which different forms occur, when c.a. growths in lithium chloride and immune serum.
I havn´t read the short paper yet, but it seems that there is huge variation occuring, inerestingly.

Walter et al 1939 - Dissociation of candida albicans by lithium chloride and immune serum

 

[max_yazhbin]

I suspect that a fungal overgrowth is the underlying cause of my ME/CFS, maybe not the direct cause. It seems that it is a Saccharomycus, a sugar fungus (which uses sugar to buid up its cell walls), with most reknown Candida Albicans. Things that I observed:

• "Luckily" I was so stupid to cause myself an athletic foot (presumably to be rather severe), so I can observe effects, and are not bound solely to my neurological feelings (which is interesting as well, and maybe important as well).
• I suffer from Rosacea, which is to my knowledge of unknown cause. It seems that my Rosacea since begin of my low manganese diet has "changed" into a fungal infection, especially on that side I use to sleep on. But first it vanished completely for three months, but then came back with my neurological symptoms which though vanish very slowly over the course years. On the side I sleep also my hair is white, presumably the stem cells have gone extinct because of fighting fungus.
• The first sign of Rosacea appeared after antibiotic treatment against borrelia, when I was end of my twenties. A tiny red patch under the eye on the side I sleep on. Half a year after the abx I had some unpleasant neuropsychatric symptoms (luckily I was intelligent not to go to a doctor, instead didn´t stop university). Now I think that they appeared in the course of season, in my case therefore begin of spring. They vanished late autumn.
• Two years ago my bathroom got finally completely ill, and I could not shower anymore for two years. Immediately I discovered red points on my leg. They have gone now since I restricted sugar and starch, despite I managed not to change the bedding (as I didn´t manage this to do in the past, and due to other rather special circumstances).
• I suddenly got ugly gum issues - a few months after my then severe rosacea suddenly had appeared. This was subsequent of a change in diet, beans instead of meat, so rich in manganese, and even including sugar. I ve made already a manganese thread on Manganese and Pathogens, where yeast is linked.
• Caffeine in coffee (not in tea) seems to be a bad influence on my gum.
• Recently my GP asked since when I have this fungus in the littel nail my right foot. Interestingly this I ever had, to my knowledge, confirmed by my mother.

In this thread, I want to (slowly) gather literature on influences on the growths of Saccharomyces, most notably on Albicans.

---
This night I happened to drink a lot of black tea. It appears that it wasn´t a good idea, foot wise.

Structural Alteration in Candida Albicans by Caffeine and Caffeine Salts
Mittag 1994

The article lists this interesting looking literature:

• Effects of subinhibitory concentrations of ketoconazole on in vitro adherence of Candida albicans to vaginal epithelial cells. Sobel JD, Obedeanu N.Eur J Clin Microbiol. 1983 Oct;2(5):445-52. doi: 10.1007/bf02013902.PMID: 6315422
• Recombinagenicity of caffeine for Candida albicans.
• Sarachek A, Henderson LA.Mycopathologia. 1990 May;110(2):63-76. doi: 10.1007/bf00446993.PMID: 2195351
• The effect of cinnamaldehyde on the growth and the morphology of Candida albicans.
  Taguchi Y, Hasumi Y, Abe S, Nishiyama Y.Med Mol Morphol. 2013 Mar;46(1):8-13. doi: 10.1007/s00795-012-0001-0. Epub 2013 Jan 17.PMID: 23325549
• Action of chlorhexidine on budding Candida albicans: scanning and transmission electron microscopic study.
  Bobichon H, Bouchet P.Mycopathologia. 1987 Oct;100(1):27-35. doi: 10.1007/bf00769565.PMID: 3317060
• Cytological aspects of dimorphism in Candida albicans.
  Gow NA, Gooday GW.Crit Rev Microbiol. 1987;15(1):73-8. doi: 10.3109/10408418709104449.PMID: 3319423 Review.

I also had toenail fungus for years and almost all of the things that I tried didn't work until I applied a mixture of liquid nystatin and andrographis powder to the area and that killed the fungus and a new nail grew in. You mention borrelia, I hope my lyme article is helpful for you: https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/my-experience-with-lyme-disease.83923/, I didn't hear about andrographis until I had lyme.