Dr Patterson on Long Haul Covid vs ME/CFS

Boba

Boba

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Quoting a post in a FB group:

Just met w Dr Patterson.

Based on my labs, he recommended IVM and ROC. For those who haven’t met w him yet or haven’t kept up w his most recent findings: he said two papers will be coming out shortly that explain viral proteins are hiding out in cells along the endothelial lining of blood vessels. Made worse by exercise. This isn’t ME / CFS. Once treated, we should begin to heal. We should be able to resume exercise and normal activity. He didn’t say, but I’m guessing the POTS and MCAS will also subside in time. Guys, this is giving me so much hope! Will report back after treatment.

xx


* Edited after learning more. Healing may take time. But clearing the viral debris is important to bring down inflammation and begin healing.


What do you guys think about this?

I attached the Lab results of the person
 

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Boba

Boba

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xebex said:
how does he know it's not ME/CFS? (seems like a good descriptor of what I have) seeing as we don't really know what ME is yet how can he say what it's not?
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Good question, I'm not convinced by that statement either, but somehow want to believe him as I'm a long hauler myself.
 
xebex

xebex

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Boba said:
Good question, I'm not convinced by that statement either, but somehow want to believe him as I'm a long hauler myself.
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my thoughts are that he's still going with the biopsychosocial BS for ME, so trying to tell long covid people - don't worry your illness is real - not like those losers.

Also I'm pretty sure he is right or at least partially right and I do belive long covid and ME are the same - the thing is there are a million different subtypes of the condition so different things might help different people.
 
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nerd

nerd

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xebex said:
my thoughts are that he's still going with the biopsychosocial BS for ME, so trying to tell long covid people - don't worry your illness is real - not like those losers.
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That!

It's unfortunate that they simply remove any positive viral infections from CFS/ME groups and in the same breath, they claim that CFS/ME can not be viral because they can not find positive serology in CFS/ME patients.
No wonder when they remove all positively-tested ones from the enrollment in primary care. What's left then are the difficult ones.

CFS/ME is clearly defined. Either you have it or you don't. Viral serology doesn't exclude CFS/ME. Nothing excludes CFS/ME unless a controlled study showed so. Until then, fibromyalgia, post-viral syndrome, etc. are all valid co-diagnoses.

Boba said:
What do you guys think about this?
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I understand why he would advise Ivermectin since it's a broad antiviral with good safety.

Maraviroc, however, is an odd choice I can't completely fathom. I guess it's because your CCL5 are elevated. But correlation doesn't mean causality. Maybe the CCL5 would be helpful and it's just the CCR5 of the T lymphocytes that don't get the message.

The only known useful secondary mechanism of Maraviroc is the increase of CD8+ to CD4+ T cell ratio (10.1016/j.ijid.2020.10.101).

But it's odd. Your long hauler index is very low. This makes it even more likely that you have real CFS/ME and not what is currently understood as Post-COVID or long hauler syndrome. A SARS-CoV-2 infection (symptomatic or not) can trigger EBV and other viral reactivations, and in a synergistic way, the likelihood of CFS pathogenesis increases. Assuming that the long hauler index is as sensitive as they claim it to be, I assume that your immunological pathology is driven by something else. But it is very likely reacting to a pathogen as manifested in your cytokine profile, that is clear. This is why Ivermectin makes sense.
 
Boba

Boba

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It‘s not my long hauler profile. It’s from the person who wrote the comment. I just enrolled to their program, it can take weeks until I have data.
 
xebex

xebex

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nerd said:
It's unfortunate that they simply remove any positive viral infections from CFS/ME groups and in the same breath, they claim that CFS/ME can not be viral because they can not find positive serology in CFS/ME patients.
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sorry I don't meant to hijack the post but WTAF?
 
nerd

nerd

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xebex said:
"what the actual f*ck" to them removing viral results and then claiming they can't find any viruses????
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Please don't get me wrong. They don't intentionally remove it from an existing group. It's just how the medical system works. The black and white thinking. Positive viral serology prevents CFS/ME from even being considered or diagnosed. CFS/ME diagnosis prevents a proper latent viral diagnosis and a complete review of all infections, because some studies claim that there is no association. But this lack of association is based on the first issue, the exclusion of CFS/ME by positive viral diagnosis in primary care, so they aren't even considered to be enrolled in such studies.

The patients themselves don't want to accept having CFS/ME either because of the whole stigma. So they themselves won't consider enrollment either.
 
nerd

nerd

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xebex said:
@nerd ah I see! So if they find a virus they say it’s due to the virus and therefore can’t be ME because ME is psychosomatic???
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Certainly, this is the mindset that drives it. But you can't admit this to yourself or other researchers, right? So, the execution is this cycle of self-fulfillment in that you try to show something that is impossible to show because you always try to show the same thing.
 
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