Dr Chia finds enterovirus ME/CFS patients given the antiviral remdesivir for several days remain in remission for up to 9 months

[Hip]

A new study by Dr John Chia finds that 75% of enterovirus ME/CFS patients who were given a 5 to 10 day course of the intravenous antiviral remdesivir obtained remission within 2 to 6 weeks of this treatment, and remained in remission for a period of time ranging from 6 weeks to 9 months.

This is impressive, since for some enterovirus ME/CFS patients, they might only need to take a course of remdesivir every few months in order to remain in remission.

Though it's not entirely clear from the study whether "remission" means complete cessation of all ME/CFS symptoms (which is the usual definition of remission), or whether by "remission" Dr Chia just means substantial improvement in symptoms.



In the body, remdesivir converts to GS-441524, and then this converts into the active compound GS-443902, which is antiviral for RNA viruses like enterovirus.

People whose cats develop the normally fatal viral disease of feline infectious peritonitis (FIP), which is caused by feline coronavirus, will sometimes obtain some GS-441524 to give to their cat. Usually it requires 12 weeks of daily injections of GS-441524 to save the cat. The total cost of treatment is around $5000. GS-441524 can also be given orally, but the oral bioavailability 57%, so a lot is wasted compared to injection. 1

A few years ago, GS-441524 for treating FIP could only be found on the black market, but nowadays it can be legally obtained from a vet.

GS-441524 would likely work just as well as remdesivir for treating enterovirus ME/CFS.

 

[cfs since 1998]

I've never heard of remissions that fast from any treatment (except from steroids and other "symptomatic" bandaid type treatments with temporary effects). This is unprecedented and sounds too good to be true but let's hope that it is.

If it works that quick, it should not be too difficult to do a double-blind placebo controlled trial. Let's hope Dr. Chia is able to put one together.

I've been hesitant to try Dr. Chia's favored treatment of oxymatrine becuase it's apparently bad for autoimmune diseases and I already think ME/CFS has a strong autoimmune component.

 

[cfs since 1998]

He also tested paxlovid. He reported that 75% improved on remdesivir and 50% on paxlovid. Seems high considering so/so results of paxlovid on Long COVID patients.

 

[Hip]

He also tested paxlovid. He reported that 75% improved on remdesivir and 50% on paxlovid. Seems high considering so/so results of paxlovid on Long COVID patients.

Yes, though with Paxlovid, Dr Chia says the patients relapsed within days to weeks, so unless you are taking Paxlovid almost continually, it will not be much use as an ME/CFS treatment.

Generic Paxlovid is available here, costing $130 for 5 days supply.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

I attempted to read about this concept.

How would I know I have enterovirus? If I knew that, maybe I'd seek treatment.

It sounds like testing to determine that, is iffy.

 

[Wishful]

I've never heard of remissions that fast from any treatment

ME can switch states that fast. I've had what seemed to be 100% remission within hours of taking T2. It switched back to full ME in about the same amount of time.

Would GS-441524 have any other possible mechanisms of action? T2 is involved with RNA transcription, so might these other drugs also interact with human RNA?

 

[godlovesatrier]

I still think I'm onto something with my four month almost near remission episode after 5 days or molnupiravir.

I'm about to take it again as I'm in a period of fatigue and brainfog which is relentless and above my normal baseline. I think brought on by stress due to work and pollen. Im convinced it's caused by long covid. My doctor isn't a believer in viral persistence for long COVID and yet so many polybio studies show double stranded rna present in the faeces of lc patients long after exposure.

Anyway I wonder if remedesivir will work for LC. Well we will find out very soon because in Derby UK a trial is underway to answer that same question. I think the results of that combined with this trial will be really fascinating.

I wasn't eligible for the UK trial which is a real shame.

I wonder if brakespear would be talked into doing a 10 day remedesivir course and how much that would cost...

Molnu is cheaper in the meantime and seemingly has excellent bioavailability? I believe.

 

[godlovesatrier]

@Rufous McKinney biopsy is the primary way for Chia to diagnose it.

But Quest do neutralisation tests for a wide array of evs. So you should be able to access that unless trump has shut it down already.

 

[godlovesatrier]

@Hip is there any mention anywhere of the immune modulator being used?

The only one I can think of that might be worth trying is imunovir.

Also is there a full study writeup or has he only published this as an article in the infectious disease magazine? Can't find the full study anywhere.

Thanks.

 

[Hip]

Also is there a full study writeup or has he only published this as an article in the infectious disease magazine? Can't find the full study anywhere.

I don't think there is any more to the study than the abstract.

The only other info I have is the following, which comes from the IACFS conference 2021:

Covid-19 infection in patients with myalgic encephalitis/chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS) – a preliminary study.

John Chia (MD) from Lomita,CA, USA looked at Covid-19 infection in patients with ME/CFS. Acute infection with Covid-19 is often followed by long lasting debilitating symptoms, known now a Long-Haul Covid. This study looked at whether those with pre-existing ME/CFS would get a more severe illness if they contracted Covid-19. 26 ME/CFS patients were studied and they also had enterovirus infection (EV). Prior EV was diagnosed using stomach biopsies.

Patients who developed Covid-19 were followed over 3-6 months. 15 had mild symptoms, and 11 were bedridden with flu-like symptoms, fatigue and brain fog for 2-4 weeks. 14 of the 26 felt worse ME/CFS symptoms for months after the acute infection. 4 of the 11 were hospitalised. One had perforated sigmoid diverticulitis, 3 had pneumonia (treated with off-label use of remdesivir and steroids). Recovery took up to 3 months for the latter.

During follow-up, enteroviral proteins were detected in peripheral blood leucocytes in 13 patients, but none had ongoing Covid-19 proteins.

He concluded that Covid-19 infection had caused significant worsening on ME/CFS symptoms in half the patients and 4 required hospitalisation. Remdesivir had led to marked improvement of ME/CFS symptoms and needs further study.


Source: https://anzmes.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/IACFS2021RV3.pdf

 

[godlovesatrier]

That's frustrating. It's still a good study though. Well I'll report back about molnu.