Does bruising trigger PEM?"

[Wishful]

I was thinking last night about how my PEM seemed to be triggered by muscle damage that caused immune activation. So, does other physical damage that results in immune activation (to clean up the damaged cells) trigger PEM? Serious injuries result in other types of stress that could trigger PEM, but a simple bruise should, I assume, trigger immune activation without great emotional stress or hospital visits, etc. Bruising is probably more common among PWME since balance disorders are also common.

So, has anyone noticed getting PEM from bruising or other such physical damage?

 

[hapl808]

For me - yep. Especially since I have some kind of muscular illness, even bumping my knee can cause some pain and then possibly a crash.

 

[Dysfunkion]

I'm a chronic lip picker out of habit, sometimes I accidentally create a bit of a mess. Any sharp sensation of pain especially on my face have a chance of causing it, a small stinging wound like that will have me anxiety ridden and blank minded quickly especially if in my mouth. For me I noticed getting a haircut sends it into overdrive, I need to actually plan every time I get a hair cut because I am a mental train wreck after every one and my face/parts of my scalp will feel like they're on fire with terrible icy hot for days, No product is used on my head, shaving my face produces similar but manageable results. Another thing I noticed is if I play with the tops of my ears my forehead will get extremely hot, it's as bizarre as it sounds. I've been trying to dissect this one for many years now and haven't been able to find anything conclusive. Maybe there is micro injuries when getting a hair cut and something is released I'm reacting to directly into the bloodstream from the nervous system and the immune system takes action. But why would the ear thing happen and why would it specifically lead to a hot feeling in the forehead? I don't think there is any nerves directly connecting the 2 locations anyways.

 

[Wishful]

Maybe there is micro injuries when getting a hair cut

My guess is that it's more likely the neurological effects of interaction, similar to socializing.

As for no direct nerve connection between ear tips and forehead, I won't say that it's impossible. We do have weird connections, direct and indirect. I think it's reasonable for triggering one part of the brain to influence other parts. Example: touch a dog or cat on a certain spot and they'll compulsively scratch or lick some unrelated spot.

 

[Dysfunkion]

My guess is that it's more likely the neurological effects of interaction, similar to socializing.

As for no direct nerve connection between ear tips and forehead, I won't say that it's impossible. We do have weird connections, direct and indirect. I think it's reasonable for triggering one part of the brain to influence other parts. Example: touch a dog or cat on a certain spot and they'll compulsively scratch or lick some unrelated spot.

Yeah that's sadly the only other conclusion I can come up with as not much else makes sense. One thing I noticed with myself is that there isn't much signal gating, it's as if one thing I'm experiencing will very quickly take over everything else going on in my brain, it's difficult for me to regulate emotions because everything is experienced so strongly. It's a repeatable thing with the ear touching and forehead heating, I can do this over and over again, and I'll get the same results regardless of my previous state of mind or any other factors.

I bet what could be happening in some cases is that the signalling starts effecting other areas of the brain strongly that it should not be doing causing a bunch of downstream problems neurologically and systematically. That doesn't really help the whole "it's all your head" thing we often get thrown at us though and explaining that to someone who doesn't experience this won't understand why for example it can't be trained, medicated, or therapy'd out. It a functional mechanic of the brain gone wrong with very real physical/neurological consequences. Then you have questions like why is this happening in the first place to which nobody knows because the reason can be different in even every case under a certain umbrella. Maybe barriers between certain areas in the brain were degraded by something, somehow, and the brain had no choice but to reroute something in a specially different way that is also problematic.

 

[Wishful]

I bet what could be happening in some cases is that the signalling starts effecting other areas of the brain strongly that it should not be doing causing a bunch of downstream problems neurologically and systematically.

Yes, we're not all identical in how our brain cells operate. Some may have "leakier" cells that send or receive communication molecules more readily. Maybe the CSF has a different characteristic that facilitates this intercellular communication. Maybe your glial cells are "primed" in some way that makes them more sensitive than usual. We also differ in the long-reach neural connections. Real physical causes, but very hard to figure out.

For you, it means that if touching your ear tips makes you uncomfortable, stop touching your ear tips. That's not much help for someone whose neurological malfunction makes them bedridden without any avoidable cause.