Differences between HIV/AIDS symptoms and CFS symptoms

[sorin]

Hello all!
I was reading about symptoms of HIV/AIDS here http://www.health.com/health/gallery/0,,20539037,00.html and wrote down the following list

fever
fatigue
swollen lymph nodes
sore throat
skin rash
diarrhea
dry cough
candida
difficulty concentration
oral herpes
weakness

and noticed that I have/ I had in the last years all of the above mentioned symptoms. However, several HIV tests, repeated in the last 5 years came back all negative. Does anyone know are there any differences between HIV symptoms and CFS symptoms? Are the HIV symptoms the same with the CFS symptoms?
If yes, why negative HIV people having these symptoms are not treated according to their symptoms rather than checking blood tests that show nothing (being absolute irrelevant)? For Lyme, for example, seems doctors put the diagnostic and initiate a treatment according to symptoms since there is no validated and recognized blood test to diagnose Lyme.

Regards,
Sorin

 

[taniaaust1]

ME/CFS has worst symptoms then an AIDS patient except when they are 2 weeks from death (this comes from a doctor who specialised in both AIDS and ME/CFS who also said she would rather have AIDS then ME/CFS).

We even seem to be predisposed to one of the same cancers which is more common in AIDS http://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/infectious-agents/hiv-fact-sheet We more commonly get non Hodgkins Lymphoma http://www.prohealth.com/library/showarticle.cfm?libid=17017

If you have ME/CFS your dr should be treating your symptoms as much as he/she can. Unfortuantely there are all too many drs out there who give no treatment at all for ME/CFS.

asthma seems to be more common in ME/CFS, your dry cough could be asthma. (mine was).

 

[Countrygirl]

A doctor who specialises in AIDS told me that her patients, just like people with ME, don't, as a general rule develop colds either. I was surprised to learn that we share this 'peculiarity' too.

 

[taniaaust1]

this got me thinking back. A long time ago.. maybe 10 years back. ME/CFS by many patients was being called non HIV AIDS.

 

[ScottTriGuy]

A doctor who specialises in AIDS told me that her patients, just like people with ME, don't, as a general rule develop colds either. I was surprised to learn that we share this 'peculiarity' too.

hmmmm, that has not been my experience (I'm HIV+ and a simple head cold precipitated my slide from 'mild' to 'severe' ME symptoms) nor my observation (working daily with people living with HIV).

 

[Countrygirl]

hmmmm, that has not been my experience (I'm HIV+ and a simple head cold precipitated my slide from 'mild' to 'severe' ME symptoms) nor my observation (working daily with people living with HIV).

Thanks for clarifying this, @ScottTriGuy . I did find it hard to believe.

 

[sorin]

this got me thinking back. A long time ago.. maybe 10 years back. ME/CFS by many patients was being called non HIV AIDS.

This is very serious, critical. I would very interested to know the opinion of Mr.Prof, @Jonathan Edwards on my original post, about the differences between symptoms of HIV and CFS.

 

[sorin]

ME/CFS has worst symptoms then an AIDS patient

Could this be because AIDS patients receive treatments while CFS patients receive nothing?

 

[sorin]

ME/CFS has worst symptoms then an AIDS patient except when they are 2 weeks from death (this comes from a doctor who specialised in both AIDS and ME/CFS who also said she would rather have AIDS then ME/CFS).

We even seem to be predisposed to one of the same cancers which is more common in AIDS http://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/infectious-agents/hiv-fact-sheet We more commonly get non Hodgkins Lymphoma http://www.prohealth.com/library/showarticle.cfm?libid=17017

If you have ME/CFS your dr should be treating your symptoms as much as he/she can. Unfortuantely there are all too many drs out there who give no treatment at all for ME/CFS.

asthma seems to be more common in ME/CFS, your dry cough could be asthma. (mine was).

All these facts leads our thinking into one direction - CFS is caused by a subtype of HIV or by a retrovirus similar to HIV. Take into account that CFS and HIV first cases were both reported about in the same period of 80's. My believe is that both of them were created by humans in the laboratory and then spread to the external world. The big question is why HIV was quite fast identified and presented to the world (in a couple of years) while the virus of CFS is not known even after 35 years.

 

[Jonathan Edwards]

This is very serious, critical. I would very interested to know the opinion of Mr.Prof, @Jonathan Edwards on my original post, about the differences between symptoms of HIV and CFS.

Lots and lots of different conditions from leukaemias to lupus can produce these symptoms. You do not make a diagnosis on these symptoms - you look for something specific that tells you which of fifty possible causes it is. I think the similarity to AIDS is a complete red herring to be honest.

 

[sorin]

Lots and lots of different conditions from leukaemias to lupus can produce these symptoms. You do not make a diagnosis on these symptoms - you look for something specific that tells you which of fifty possible causes it is. I think the similarity to AIDS is a complete red herring to be honest.

For Lyme disease, a few doctors told me that the diagnosis is based on symptoms and not on specific tests, because there is no specific test validated and reliable today to say if one has Lyme or not. Why for Lyme the treatment can be started based on symptoms and for CFS the treatment can not be started based on symptoms?

 

[sorin]

Lots and lots of different conditions from leukaemias to lupus can produce these symptoms.

That can not mean that there could be the same treatment for the lot of different conditions since all have the same symptoms? That rituximab that gave so good results for CFS was not used before for leukemia treatment? Also, the Berlin patient was not treated of HIV with a lymphoma treatment? I am wondering why we are looking for different treatments for diseases that cause basically the same damages in the body?

 

[Jonathan Edwards]

For Lyme disease, a few doctors told me that the diagnosis is based on symptoms and not on specific tests, because there is no specific test validated and reliable today to say if one has Lyme or not. Why for Lyme the treatment can be started based on symptoms and for CFS the treatment can not be started based on symptoms?

To make a diagnosis of Lyme on symptoms you need something very specific like an erythema migrans rash. There is no comparison to AIDS.

 

[Jonathan Edwards]

That can not mean that there could be the same treatment for the lot of different conditions since all have the same symptoms? That rituximab that gave so good results for CFS was not used before for leukemia treatment? Also, the Berlin patient was not treated of HIV with a lymphoma treatment? I am wondering why we are looking for different treatments for diseases that cause basically the same damages in the body?

Treatment tends to have nothing much to do with symptoms except for simple things like pain. It has to do with the disease mechanism. The 'damages in the body' bear no relation to each other in these different conditions. Rituximab is used for diseases due to malfunctioning B cells, which happens to include B lymphocyte leukaemia and rheumatoid arthritis, but not myeloid leukaemia.

 

[sorin]

Treatment tends to have nothing much to do with symptoms except for simple things like pain. It has to do with the disease mechanism. The 'damages in the body' bear no relation to each other in these different conditions. Rituximab is used for diseases due to malfunctioning B cells, which happens to include B lymphocyte leukaemia and rheumatoid arthritis, but not myeloid leukaemia.

Ok, thank you very much for your reply. So, do you think that a HIV treatment applied to a non-HIV CFS patient would be of no help at all and is completely wrong to do that?

 

[valentinelynx]

A doctor who specialises in AIDS told me that her patients, just like people with ME, don't, as a general rule develop colds either. I was surprised to learn that we share this 'peculiarity' too.

Hmm. Dr Kaufman told me the same thing. I hypothesized that since the symptoms of a cold are largely due to the response of the immune system to the presence of a virus, the cold virus can come and go and we just don't notice it. He appeared to agree, that this is something like a reverse IRIS (immune reconstitution inflammatory syndrome). IRIS occurs in immunodepressed (e.g. HIV) patients when their immune systems start to function, they get many inflammatory symptoms. This is likely the source of "herxing" in many cases.

 

[valentinelynx]

Treatment tends to have nothing much to do with symptoms except for simple things like pain. It has to do with the disease mechanism.

Yes. True "treatment" means correcting the root cause of the illness. Palliation is symptom control, used when the disease cannot be treated directly, or until the treatment has time to take effect.

For example, many things cause fever. If you have a particular infectious cause of your fever you will get antibiotics. If you have a virus, you may get antivirals. If you have malaria, you will get anti-protozoal medication, if you have an autoimmune disease, you will get immune suppression therapy.

In all of these cases the symptoms of fever will be treated with an antipyretic (aspirin, NSAID or acetaminophen) until the definitive treatment takes effect and eradicates (or suppresses) the underlying illness.

Most of the approaches to ME/CFS and fibromyalgia have been addressing symptoms (e.g. pain control, sleep medication, medications for POTS, allergy symptom control) while we are all hoping for identification of a root cause of illness (e.g. a particular infectious agent or an autoimmune attack on the microglia of the brain (I'm being simplistic) so we can have definitive treatment!

 

[taniaaust1]

. Take into account that CFS and HIV first cases were both reported about in the same period of 80's. My believe is that both of them were created by humans in the laboratory and then spread to the external world. .

No ME has been around for a long time...there have been many outbreaks worldwide way before that. Australia had 3 outbreaks of it in the 1950s. http://www.hfme.org/meoutbreakscause.htm

(the outbreaks may of started around time of nuclear testing?)
.........

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_chronic_fatigue_syndrome

 

[Valentijn]

(the outbreaks may of started around time of nuclear testing?)

It probably pre-dates that by quite a bit.

 

[sorin]

Ok, thank you very much for your reply. So, do you think that a HIV treatment applied to a non-HIV CFS patient would be of no help at all and is completely wrong to do that?

@Jonathan Edwards - so having no answer from you to this question, that means implicitly that you are on opinion that a HIV treatment applied to a non-HIV CFS patient is a complete mistake and is of no use?