Dark Circles Under Eyes

[hapl808]

Anyone have an idea for dark circles under the eyes?

I don't think it's allergy related, as it seems unaffected by antihistamines, mast cell stabilizers, etc. Sleep also doesn't affect it, other than maybe it being even worse when I wake up.

It does seem to correlate a bit to mental exertion triggered PEM. I'm kind of always crashed, but if I concentrate a bit, the next couple days have more 'pressure behind the eyes' feeling and dark circles. Looks almost like black eyes.

Any idea for treating this or the underlying issues? Considering trying other things that might work more on neuro symptoms or cross the BBB - ALA, MB, etc.

Other thread on it has pretty much nothing other than gluten, allergies, etc (I've tried all that - stopped gluten for a few years, etc).

https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/dark-circles-under-eyes-after-onset-of-m-e.38817/

 

[BrightCandle]

No clue, I have had them for a few years now and I haven't found a way to address them and they aren't going away. They fade a bit when I am feeling better and get worse when I am worse.

 

[hapl808]

They fade a bit when I am feeling better and get worse when I am worse.

Same. If I try to work on the computer more or do phone calls, I wake up the next morning looking like a raccoon, and usually my brain fog is worse when the circles are darker.

It all sounds so weird, I'm sure I wouldn't believe it if I weren't experiencing it.

For me it also seems worse 'visually' for the first half of the day, then gets slightly better in the evening. Absolute worst when I first wake up. Kept thinking it was allergies, but I've tried air purifiers, windows open or closed, new pillows (organic cotton), fresh pillow cases, etc. No change.

 

[hapl808]

Looking at PubMed, most of the studies seem focused more on the aesthetics, not the actual reasons for it.

 

[pattismith]

I found an histological study of periorbital hyperchromia (2013)

Results​

Hemosiderin was absent in all cases. The increase in melanin content in the papillary dermis was slight in mild clinical cases and moderate in both the moderate and severe clinical cases of CIHOR. Mild dilation of blood vessels was observed in the papillary dermis at the different clinical levels of CIHOR severity, while in the reticular dermis, blood vessels showed moderate dilation and few melanophages were found.

Conclusion
An increase in melanin content was the most marked histological change in specimens of darkened skin.

Dilation of dermal blood vessels may contribute to the severity of CIHOR. Hemosiderin was not observed in any case.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00266-012-0048-2

 

[Atlas]

It does seem to correlate a bit to mental exertion triggered PEM.

Mine correlates with that too, which also correlates with poor sleep quality.

I get a "sinking eyes" feeling when I wake up in the night, feeling dehydrated. Although that has stopped happening recently. But still have the dark circles.

Dr. Markov calls them "intoxication shadows". I guess people who drink a lot of alcohol get that too

I know they definitely improve when I make sure to stay hydrated and have consistent sleep pattern. But don't go away entirely

 

[bad1080]

it is one of the "atopic stigmata" (although the list is gone from wikipedia now, maybe there has been newer research as atopic only means "we don't know where it comes from") maybe look into it and see if anything sounds familiar or if you have any of the other stigamata as well.

this: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1684469/
describes it as "orbital darkening".

 

[LaurelW]

I've had dark shadows under my eyes since I was in my 20s. (That's almost 50 years ago). Nobody can explain why--I didn't get ME until I was 40.

 

[BrightCandle]

Sounds like its just another one of those symptoms no one is interested in studying in ME/CFS patients. I get the focus on a few of the worst symptoms but if the answer has been sat there around our eyes, the literal visible part of this disease, all this time honestly I am going to be really angry with these researchers for ignoring this for decades.

 

[Carl]

In me they begin approx 1cm below both eyes and I have like a rings below each eye. The area between the eyes and the 1cm distance looks fairly normally coloured in me.

Another one to add to common symptoms by the look of it.

 

[perchance dreamer]

I have dark circles, and under my left eye, purple at the bottom. I wear a really good concealer, but even so, both a doctor and a physician's assistant have asked me before if I had a black eye. In my case, I think it's caused by allergies; pale skin, which makes them look more prominent; and maybe genetics since family members have the same thing when they get older.

I'm married to the best guy in the world, and I'd hate for anyone to think he hits me, but I'm also not willing to address this with cosmetic surgery. The concealer does tone down the purple, so it helps some.

 

[Carl]

It could be caused by poor sleep. Just an idea with no proven basis FYI.

 

[Zebra]

Hi, @hapl808

I know you are housebound, so I am wondering the last time you had simple blood work like Complete Blood Count and Comprehensive Metabolic Panel?

If it's been a long time, maybe it would be worthwhile to do a basic check and see if anything is amiss?

If you don't want to go through a doctor, you can purchase these tests through Quest Direct. For an additional fee, you can have a phlebotomist come to your home to draw the blood and drop off at the lab.

I believe LabCorp may also now offer similar direct to consumer basic blood work and at home blood draws, but I haven't used LC myself.

Just a thought!

 

[hapl808]

I know you are housebound, so I am wondering the last time you had simple blood work like Complete Blood Count and Comprehensive Metabolic Panel?

If it's been a long time, maybe it would be worthwhile to do a basic check and see if anything is amiss?

If you don't want to go through a doctor, you can purchase these tests through Quest Direct. For an additional fee, you can have a phlebotomist come to your home to draw the blood and drop off at the lab.

Haven't done it in a few years, but had this issue for longer than that. My blood work has been home draws in recent years, but even that really knocks me out. Never found anything actionable before, so I'm not sure I'm anxious to do it again. Sounds like others have the same problem and have likely not solved it with CBC, etc.

But thanks for the thought - I would get more testing if I were able, but I have to be pretty sure something will help, as a lot of 'ruling out' testing caused some permanent declines.

 

[kushami]

I have to take a short course of presnisolone (for a different problem) and am interested to see whether it does anything for my dark circles.

My right eye is worse, which may be because that’s the side I lie on most often when sleeping.

Could also be related to allergies, which the steroids might temporarily fix, I suppose.

I have periods of sleeping pretty well, and pretty badly. Haven’t noticed the dark circles correlating with sleep.

Edit: Oh, and mine have been dark purple circles at some times and a purple line a little below at others. At one stage it looked a lot like an “allergic shiner”.

Also, for many years my undereyes were slightly sunken, then overnight the sunken bit filled in with puffiness. (I can tell by looking closely that the elevation isn’t normal.) So they are puffy and sunken at the same time. Sigh.

I have had sunken eyes from dehydration in the past, but dehydration is not part of my current problems.

 

[Scarlett*54]

Anyone have an idea for dark circles under the eyes?

I don't think it's allergy related, as it seems unaffected by antihistamines, mast cell stabilizers, etc. Sleep also doesn't affect it, other than maybe it being even worse when I wake up.

It does seem to correlate a bit to mental exertion triggered PEM. I'm kind of always crashed, but if I concentrate a bit, the next couple days have more 'pressure behind the eyes' feeling and dark circles. Looks almost like black eyes.

Any idea for treating this or the underlying issues? Considering trying other things that might work more on neuro symptoms or cross the BBB - ALA, MB, etc.

Other thread on it has pretty much nothing other than gluten, allergies, etc (I've tried all that - stopped gluten for a few years, etc).

https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/dark-circles-under-eyes-after-onset-of-m-e.38817/

Could be thyroid related. My son has this problem and he has thyroid/adrenal issues.

 

[hapl808]

Could be thyroid related. My son has this problem and he has thyroid/adrenal issues.

I've wondered that, but my thyroid numbers come up normal (not just TSH, but reverse, etc). I know that doesn't rule out thyroid, so just trying to treat it could be useful, too. But I look more like hyperthyroid (low weight, constant tachycardia, etc) than hypothyroid.

 

[tyson oberle]

I think what probably seems to make the most sense is that dark circles are caused by leaky capillaries. The leaky blood gets stuck around the surrounding area and then turns dark blueish black just like a bruise. A bruise happens when blood vessels break and leak into the surrounding area and the pooled blood turns dark blueish black

 

[Scarlett*54]

I've wondered that, but my thyroid numbers come up normal (not just TSH, but reverse, etc). I know that doesn't rule out thyroid, so just trying to treat it could be useful, too. But I look more like hyperthyroid (low weight, constant tachycardia, etc) than hypothyroid.

I'm no expert but I did work for a holistic doctor for 7 years where they did more comprehensive thyroid testing including Hashimoto testing. This is a thyroid related autoimmune disorder. I certainly hope you can get to the bottom of this.

 

[kushami]

Just reporting back. I have been taking prednisolone for about a month, starting with three weeks at 25mg followed by a slow taper.

Unfortunately for my vanity, there was no improvement in my dark circles. And, in fact, as I now get to the end of the taper, my dad commented that my right eye is more affected than before, with the darkness extending into the corner on the side of my nose, and looking more like a black eye than before. Ho hum.

On an interesting note, my skin got softer. I know steroids can affect collagen production long term, but that is not what caused it. In fact, I’ve noticed each time I take a short course of steroids that my skin gets softer.

For skin science nerds: I believe it is due to a reduction in keratinisation. I have keratosis pilaries, and I wonder if it might go away if I treated it intensively with a keratolytic moisturiser and took steroids. Of course that would not be a good idea for a harmless if annoying/upsetting skin disorder.

(The official reason I was taking the steroids was itching attacks, possibly caused by dust mite allergies. I don’t get a rash or any skin disturbance and it happens sporadically, so my dermatologist says it’s very hard to diagnose. Anyhow, I am blissfully itch free and hope I will stay that way for a few months.)