Creatine Didn't Help

[Arius]

TL;DR: Creatine made me feel like crap and didn't help at all. I tried pairing it with D-Ribose, dramatically increasing my water intake, and lowering the dosage, all to no avail. Wondering what information I can glean from this.





So....



After reading some promising studies on creatine monohydrate, I decided to give it a go. I started at a dose of 16g and I intended to do this for six weeks.



I took my first dose one morning with breakfast. After breakfast, I always have a two hour nap. By the time I was done eating I badly needed to crawl into bed. I felt completely awful and my body was heavy like I was buried under a pile of sandbags. This lasted a couple hours, but a lingering feeling of just being extra tired and feeling like crap persisted throughout the day.



Next day, same experience. No boost in energy or mental clarity that I could discern, just sandbags and a deep feeling of total exhaustion.



I did this for 11 straight days, becoming more and more concerned that I might be harming myself. I read some resources saying that creatine can dehydrate you, and also that my Paleo/Keto diet could be a problem, since creatine needs sugar or something.



I read some more studies saying that D-ribose was a good thing to pair with creatine, and I had a whole bunch left over from an experiment a while back. I couldn't remember why I stopped taking it, but I was quickly reminded when I started again. It gave me no noticeable increase in energy, but it did give me a severe DIP in energy a few hours after taking it. I can set my watch to it.



Anyway, I tried a couple more days with D-ribose. I tried a lower dose of the creatine. I tried drinking ridiculous amounts of water with the creatine.



Nothing helped. The creatine made me feel like trash every day that I was on it. I eventually quit and it took me a week or so to recover after.



Part of me is concerned that maybe if I had held out, the creatine would EVENTUALLY have started making me feel better.



It felt like a dangerous experiment and I don't know what to do. Anybody have any insights?



I'm wondering if there are useful clues to be derived from this experience. Does anybody know what this might say about my cellular metabolism, or what it might mean in general?



In my brain, I'm guessing that the D-ribose and creatine are basically causing my cells to generate some sort of garbage that they are then struggling to clear out. Like cellular poop or something. So helping at one stage of energy production, maybe, but then immediately undoing the effect by causing problems at a later stage which maybe also needs support in some way that I'm not aware of.



I seem to respond well to Acetyl-L-Carnitine, for a while, until the effect wears off. Then I have to go off it for a long time. Other supplements that are supposed to help with energy production (such as CoQ10, D-ribose, alpha lipoic acid) either have no effect or actively make me worse.



I paid to have an organic acids test done several years ago. My naturopath basically said my Kreb's cycle is messed up and my cells produce inflammation instead of energy. I have no idea what a Kreb's cycle is and my brain fog is too severe to really figure it out. (Plus I hate biology so much that my brain refused to learn it even when I was well.) Is there anything I can do about this?



Thank you for reading. Please only respond if you have potentially helpful information. I may be too tired to respond to messages or even read them all, but I will do my best!



A

 

[Wayne]

I started at a dose of 16g

Hi @Arius -- I just did a check on creatine supplements, and the recommended dosage size on them is 5 grams. Is there a reason you started out at more than 3x that amount? Could be why your body couldn't handle it. I probably would have started with 1 gram, and gradually built up from there, monitoring how my body handled it all at each stage. -- Good luck figuring this all out!

 

[Estel]

Just wanted to echo @Wayne here. I just started creatine too, and the recommended dose is indeed 5 grams. So 16 may just be way too much for you.

 

[Springbok1988]

They likely chose 16 g based on this paper:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39408275/

“Fourteen participants with ME/CFS received supplementation with 16 g creatine monohydrate for 6 weeks.”

“Conclusion: Creatine supplementation over six weeks in ME/CFS patients increased brain creatine and improved fatigue and some aspects of cognition. Despite its methodological limitations, this study encourages placebo-controlled investigations of creatine treatment in ME/CFS.”

But I would still try lowering your dose to see how your body reacts.

 

[Arius]

Yes, I did choose 16g based on that paper.

After 11 days of feeling worse instead of better, I tried lowering my dose to 5g for 2 days and experienced a slightly less intense version of the same result.

Basically more creatine = bad, but I doubt there's a dosage for me that does anything good.

I might try starting at 1g, but I'm guessing it'll just make me feel slightly awful as opposed to super awful, or have no effect.

 

[Wayne]

I might try starting at 1g, but I'm guessing it'll just make me feel slightly awful as opposed to super awful, or have no effect.

It doesn't sound like you're overly enthusiastic about trying creatine again. And you might get the results you're guessing you'll get. Perhaps (just a suggestion) give it a bit more time to let your initial experiences work their way out of your system (physically and psychologically) and then try it again. I'd think in terms of a few weeks before giving it another go around. Take care...

 

[Mary]

@Arius - I wonder if you would tolerate creatine HCL better than monohyrdrate. it is a little more expensive but it's better absorbed (so you might need less of it) and it does not cause the bloating monohydrate can.

I started taking 2 capsules of this product a few weeks ago, and believe it gave me a little boost in energy. Unfortunately this particular product is now out of stock. Creatine HCL is harder to find than monohydrate and is more expensive, BUT you need a smaller dose and you don't have to drink tons of water with it. I haven't had any negative effects from it, at least not yet.

I first tried creatine HCL a few years ago, again noticed a slight but noticeable increase in energy but finally stopped taking it.

So the creatine HCL may be worth a try for you - or not. Sorry the creatine monohydrate did not work out for you!

 

[hapl808]

I've taken HCl and it agreed with me better, but I never got any benefits. Then again, I have lots of muscular issues that nothing seems to help, and I've tried a ton of stuff more effective than creatine.

 

[WantedAlive]

@Arius If you took 16g creatine monohydrate for 11 days without noticeable benefit, it’s unlikely you will find benefit at this time. That said, 16g for 11 days is a high dose, a dose of 16g - 20g a day for a week is considered a ’loading phase’ satisfactory to saturate your muscles with creatine phosphate before stepping down to a ‘maintenance’ dose of 3-5g.

Many people can’t cope with the loading phase, so opt for the maintenance phase only, taking longer, up to a month, to reach muscle saturation. Creatine Monohydrate at higher doses can give unpleasant side effects, including digestive bloating, and diarrhoea among them. I personally cannot cope with a single dose of 3-4g, so I dose 1.5g twice a day. Sometimes I use creatine HCL as additional, but I still find monohydrate superior. The micronised creatine is the best product, hopefully you have a quality brand?

How does creatine work? The body ingests and synthesises up to 2g creatine per day, it is stored as creatine phosphate in the muscle. Creatine Phosphate acts as an energy molecule ‘recycler’ or buffer, donating a phosphate molecule to a spent energy molecule ADP (adenosone Di-phosphate) back to an available energy molecule ATP (adenosine tri-phosphate). The ratio of ADP: ATP is relevant here, and it is probable that with an energy production defect, ME/CFS patients, along with some neurological disease patients, may use up more creatine than healthy patients.

ATP is highly reactive and is not stored (like a ‘battery’), it is suggested in healthy people at any point in time we have in our cells about 2 seconds of ATP from energy production, and creatine phosphate recycles ADP to ATP for about another 2-5 seconds of energy.

I am a severe patient, and I am personally benefiting quite a lot with 3g per day of micronised Creatine Monohydrate. It helps me sleep better as well. However, I tried creatine a few years ago and it interrupted my sleep and didn’t help like it is now. It seems possible this disease transforms over time, I benefited tremendously with Keto diet, but very quickly it stopped helping after I pushed myself too hard thinking I’d cured myself.

I can only suggest, if you are confident you have a quality creatine, that try again another time, and you don’t need a high dose, 4-5g a day is plenty, it will take 2-3 weeks to begin to show if it helps. Maybe split your dose over the day. If you still feel like crap, it’s isn’t helping.

 

[Wayne]

@WantedAlive -- Very helpful post, and nice synopsis of creatine and how it's used in the body.

 

[Arius]

It doesn't sound like you're overly enthusiastic about trying creatine again. And you might get the results you're guessing you'll get. Perhaps (just a suggestion) give it a bit more time to let your initial experiences work their way out of your system (physically and psychologically) and then try it again. I'd think in terms of a few weeks before giving it another go around. Take care...

This is excellent advice, thank you. I do think it's wise to let the frustration pass before trying again. I've also just been waiting to feel confident again. It really knocked me down a peg energy-wise and I was scared it would be permanent.

 

[Arius]

@Arius - I wonder if you would tolerate creatine HCL better than monohyrdrate. it is a little more expensive but it's better absorbed (so you might need less of it) and it does not cause the bloating monohydrate can.

I started taking 2 capsules of this product a few weeks ago, and believe it gave me a little boost in energy. Unfortunately this particular product is now out of stock. Creatine HCL is harder to find than monohydrate and is more expensive, BUT you need a smaller dose and you don't have to drink tons of water with it. I haven't had any negative effects from it, at least not yet.

I first tried creatine HCL a few years ago, again noticed a slight but noticeable increase in energy but finally stopped taking it.

So the creatine HCL may be worth a try for you - or not. Sorry the creatine monohydrate did not work out for you!

Thanks for this advice, Mary!

I bought a huge jug of the monohydrate and kind of want to get my money out of it if I can, so I'll probably try a lower dose of that first, in a few weeks when I feel ready again. But if that doesn't help I might give Creatine HCL a shot at some point.

 

[Mary]

@Arius - if you do decide to try the creatine HCL, read about it first, dosing is different than with creatine monohydrate. I don't remember what it should be off the top of my head, but I did notice a difference with 1 gram of creatine HCL within a few days. I took it on an empty stomach with my amino acids and was fine.

Also, there is no loading dose with the creatine HCL.

 

[Arius]

@Arius If you took 16g creatine monohydrate for 11 days without noticeable benefit, it’s unlikely you will find benefit at this time. That said, 16g for 11 days is a high dose, a dose of 16g - 20g a day for a week is considered a ’loading phase’ satisfactory to saturate your muscles with creatine phosphate before stepping down to a ‘maintenance’ dose of 3-5g.

Many people can’t cope with the loading phase, so opt for the maintenance phase only, taking longer, up to a month, to reach muscle saturation. Creatine Monohydrate at higher doses can give unpleasant side effects, including digestive bloating, and diarrhoea among them. I personally cannot cope with a single dose of 3-4g, so I dose 1.5g twice a day. Sometimes I use creatine HCL as additional, but I still find monohydrate superior. The micronised creatine is the best product, hopefully you have a quality brand?

How does creatine work? The body ingests and synthesises up to 2g creatine per day, it is stored as creatine phosphate in the muscle. Creatine Phosphate acts as an energy molecule ‘recycler’ or buffer, donating a phosphate molecule to a spent energy molecule ADP (adenosone Di-phosphate) back to an available energy molecule ATP (adenosine tri-phosphate). The ratio of ADP: ATP is relevant here, and it is probable that with an energy production defect, ME/CFS patients, along with some neurological disease patients, may use up more creatine than healthy patients.

ATP is highly reactive and is not stored (like a ‘battery’), it is suggested in healthy people at any point in time we have in our cells about 2 seconds of ATP from energy production, and creatine phosphate recycles ADP to ATP for about another 2-5 seconds of energy.

I am a severe patient, and I am personally benefiting quite a lot with 3g per day of micronised Creatine Monohydrate. It helps me sleep better as well. However, I tried creatine a few years ago and it interrupted my sleep and didn’t help like it is now. It seems possible this disease transforms over time, I benefited tremendously with Keto diet, but very quickly it stopped helping after I pushed myself too hard thinking I’d cured myself.

I can only suggest, if you are confident you have a quality creatine, that try again another time, and you don’t need a high dose, 4-5g a day is plenty, it will take 2-3 weeks to begin to show if it helps. Maybe split your dose over the day. If you still feel like crap, it’s isn’t helping.

Thanks so much for all this info! I wasn't sure how long it would take to start working, so having a 2-3 week timeframe in mind is super helpful.

I don't know if my creatine is quality or not. I tried to pick one that looked good but also had to factor in my extremely limited budget. This is the one I got: https://www.amazon.ca/Allmax-Creatine-Monohydrate-Artificial-Ingredients/dp/B00IP2I94O. It's ALLMAX brand.

 

[kushami]

@Arius, creatine is a mild vasodilator. Maybe vasodilators don’t agree with you?

 

[Arius]

@Arius, creatine is a mild vasodilator. Maybe vasodilators don’t agree with you?

Interesting theory. Thanks for flagging up that possibility. I have pretty low blood pressure and am borderline for POTS, so I suspect something that lowers blood pressure would potentially explain my lousy experience!

I've been taking it for a few weeks now at a much lower dose - started at what I guesstimate to be 1g (I only have a 5g scoop, so I have to sort of eyeball it) and am now at 2-2.5g per day and probably will increase it again soon. So far no discernable effects for good or ill. But if it's the vasodilation issue I imagine that ramping up is useless and the more I take, the worse I'll feel.