CFS and pain killers

[Ryan7817]

I have been Dx with CFS, still not sure if this is the correct dx, and have been taking Norco 325/10 x 4 a day because i told the doctor it helped with my mood. Having CFS is miserable and getting high from the drug helps me zone out a little and be happy for a short period of time a day. Should i feel guilty about this? Will th long term affect bite? Quality of life is better than quantity for me, and right now being high feels a lot better than facing the reality of this. I just feel extremely guilty taking these things. Do you guys no anyone else who does this?

 

[ukxmrv]

I don't get high from painikillers so don't have this choice. The opiod drugs really mess up my stomach and I get a lot of pain, bloating and constipation from them so avoid as much as I can.

My concerns would be that the good effects would wear off over time, leaving you high and dry. The side-effects would kick in or that when you are high you over exert yourself and get a payback of PEM.

Given that CFS may not be the best diagnosis for you, my advice would be to keep looking for any other alternative expanations for your symptom as some CFS patients find that the door close on them once they accept this dx.

Hopefully someone in the same boat as yourself will comment and share their experiences. Wishing you all the best.

 

[Dainty]

Getting high from a drug does have bad effects, and not just long term ones either. That good feeling is a rush of dopamine, and when you do that constantly your body stops producing its own dopamine that it would natrually. Basically, the more you use the drug the more difficult it becomes to stop using it, because you're no longer getting your own body's naturally produced happy pill.

The doctor who gave you this in order to improve your mood is, to put it lightly, a terrible doctor. There are other drugs out there, as well as herbs, that specifically work to improve mood that don't give a high. Those are the kinds of things you want to be taking to help you out with this.

Please, please wean yourself off this stuff, or if you find it too hard then look for a good doc that'll help you. This ilness is really rough, and I don't blame you for wanting to check out of reality for a bit, but you do not want to pass the years in a fog, enslaved to a drug. That isn't life. Reality is going to be even rougher because of your misuse of the drug, but it's worth it, and you'll find people are ready and willing to support you through that difficult process.

 

[Ryan7817]

I dont know, I work every day and its very hard for me and then to come home to feeling miserable. Where does it end? when, and how can i take the edge off? Its getting harder and harder to keep this cycle going with out looking for an alternative such as an opiate or some kind of substance. I want to feel some sort of relief and for whatever reason this helps.

 

[ukxmrv]

Ryan, what are your symptoms exactly and whay has your doctor ruled out?

My sympathy with you. I've been ill for over 25 years with no remission or improvement. My quality of life is very low.

 

[Jenny]

Getting high from a drug does have bad effects, and not just long term ones either. That good feeling is a rush of dopamine, and when you do that constantly your body stops producing its own dopamine that it would natrually. .

I've heard this before Dainty, but most doctors I've asked about this say there is no evidence for this. Do you have any references?

Jenny

 

[Dainty]

I've heard this before Dainty, but most doctors I've asked about this say there is no evidence for this. Do you have any references?

Jenny

Here ya go: http://health.howstuffworks.com/wellness/drugs-alcohol/addiction.htm/printable

That was just after a quick search though. I didn't realize it was questioned, might look into it further.

Were you asking the doctors about painkillers for pain, or using painkillers to improve mood? Because I've heard there's a big difference....when you use them as painkillers, at the proper dosage it is not addictive and does not have a negative affect on the receptors because it's canceling out the pain. But when you use it as a mood booster, to get high, or use more than is needed to relieve pain, that's when it starts messing everything up and starts becomming addictive.

 

[LaurelW]

Ryan, the problem with opiates is that they lose their effectiveness over time. You have to take more and more to get the same effect. Drug addiction is a real possibility, especially since people with CFS seem to be much more sensitive to drugs. I speak from experience--I was put on opiates for gall bladder pain before surgery, and then couldn't get off of them. It was the most horrible experience of my life. I thought I was going crazy and felt suicidal, something that's never happened to me before or since. I ended up having to go through inpatient detox, and still felt horrible for a while after that. It took me a year to feel normal. I implore you, please find some other way to feel better, because before long better will be much, much worse.

 

[Ryan7817]

Thanks, At this time i really dont know of another way. I hate feeling so sick all the time and this seems to be the only thing that works a little. I never go over 3 a day and i know the danger of increasing doses. If it stops working at three then i stop

 

[Jenny]

Thanks very much Dainty for the link. I can't see anything there though that talks about the body stopping producing dopamine. I've asked doctors specifically about whether using tramadol and sertaline long term (both for both pain and mood) will eventually stop the brain producing certain neurotransmitters.

Jenny

 

[Dainty]

Thanks very much Dainty for the link. I can't see anything there though that talks about the body stopping producing dopamine. I've asked doctors specifically about whether using tramadol and sertaline long term (both for both pain and mood) will eventually stop the brain producing certain neurotransmitters.

Jenny

I should have been more precise with my wording, I apologise. The article states that it can lead to your brain producing less dopamine:

Over time, prolonged use of a substance can lead the brain to stop producing as much dopamine as it naturally does. This creates further withdrawal, leading to a physical dependency -- the addict needs to use more of the substance just to feel normal, creating a vicious cycle that can be difficult to break.

Again, I didn't realize that this view was questioned, and now I hope to do deeper research into it to find the answer. If I'm able to I'll let you know. THanks for bringing it up.

 

[markmc20001]

Hey Ryan,

Nothing wrong with doing something that gives you relief. I would just be worried about causing more damage. I am very afraid of prscription drugs. Allow me to explain my personal experience.

I happen to believe my CFS is caused by mostly my liver. I've always had these symptoms that come up after eating, after drinking, or after precription drugs that make me feel lousy. I finally figured out that it is probably liver disease that is making me feel so bad.

For instance, acetominophen is miserable on me. When taking vicodin for headaces after a lumbar punchure, I ended up bedbound for 6 months. Turns out acetominophen, it is really hard on ones liver.

So now that I that I out 2 and 2 together I do anything I can to protect and heal my liver.

 

[August59]

GnRH secretion is partially regulated by
endogenous opioids, such as -endorphins, which
produce tonic inhibition of its release[3]. Exogenously
administered opioids also inhibit GnRH secretion,
resulting in HPG dysfunction at the level of the
hypothalamus. In experimental models, methadone
administration was found to significantly reduce
testosterone concentrations by over two-thirds of the
baseline values after 60 minutes, mediated in part by
the inhibition of dopaminergic activity in the
hypothalamus[4]. In addition to their effects on the
hypothalamus, opioids have also been shown to directly
reduce testosterone synthesis[5].

This statement is from an article about opiate and cocaine effects on the HPA and HPG axis. It was published in the "American Journal of Infectious Disease" (2006).

The effect on your mood will eventually diminsh or will require a larger dose. Meanwhile it is already effecting either testosterone, thyroid and/or adrenals.

Can anyone tell me why a "copy" from a pdf file inserts the way the text did above? Thanks

 

[Ryan7817]

At this point to be honest i really dont care. I will be careful and if anything too dramatic happens i will s top but this point i have felt soo much better taking them for attleast 3 hours a night. I think thats worth the world right now to me.

 

[Dainty]

Thanks, August. (The spacing is a formatting thing....you can remove it by manually backspacing in an advanced edit, but it doesn't really matter)

At this point to be honest i really dont care. I will be careful and if anything too dramatic happens i will s top but this point i have felt soo much better taking them for attleast 3 hours a night. I think thats worth the world right now to me.

Ryan, you posted asking us about long-term effects of doing this, so people are responding in answer to your question out of concern for you.

You've requested our input, but it sounds like your mind is already made up. If you've found what works for you and you don't want to change it then we're not going to argue with you.

Most of us here are very ill, and posting to benefit others is a labor of love that requires some level of sacrifice. Please show us the consideration of either listening to our responses or not asking questions that you don't want to hear the answers to.

 

[August59]

At this point to be honest i really dont care. I will be careful and if anything too dramatic happens i will s top but this point i have felt soo much better taking them for attleast 3 hours a night. I think thats worth the world right now to me.

I know where you are coming from because I have been on pain meds for 7 years. The effects on your endocrine system can managed with hormones and supplements. I had know idea that pain meds caused this until my GP checked my testosterone and found it to be low. My PM doctor says they sure can and refered me to endo for testosterone (Androgel). What know one seemed to have knowledge of was my thyroid was going as well my cortisol.

The rule of thumb by "real hormone" doctors is fix cortisol first, then thyroid and testosterone. I tried changing 2 at one time and it caused me dire consequences.

I understand that you need them and would not think otherwise, but please keep a check on your hormones. I have no doubt in my mind that my neglecting this has caused permanent damage in blood vessels and certain organs. I don't want that to happen to you. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.