Blood vessel integrity & herbs

[ebethc]

Has anyone successfully used butchers broom, horse chestnut or any other herbs to strengthen blood vessels, and improve circulation?

I'm posting this in the mast cell section because I think histamine is what makes all my blood vessels blow up like water balloons!!

2nd does nitric oxide help? Like beet powder? Arginine is out; it was fantastic until it sucked... I crashed hard on arginine so if I could get the blood flow without the crash, that would be ideal

 

[Carl]

Blood vessels and the circulatory system require Vitamin C primarily which is also needed by the adrenals. Collagen is also needed so look at the amino acids needed for that which might be in short supply in CFS these include Proline, Lysine and Glycine in particular as it is also needed for glutathione production which is heavily used in CFS due to all the detox and antioxidant requirements

In addition the colourants from plants, (pro)anthocyanidins/anthocyanins can help reinforce the circulatory system, bones and skin. These are present in black/blue/red berries or as extracts.

I use all of this myself as I have a family history of circulatory disease. It might be worth looking at Pauling therapy.
http://www.mediafire.com/file/z4vvwyyt4vf32en/Pauling_Therapy.7z

I have not used the things that you mention. I have used Serrapeptase and Nattokinase which are also effective against biofilms which I am attempting to defeat.

Things like cayenne and cinnamon are circulatory stimulants which might be helpful, especially when used with the nutrients to reinforce the circulatory system.

 

[ebethc]

@Carl thanks.. I just got a big bottle of non-corn vitamin c

 

[Carl]

For extracts I use Grape Seed powder extract but it is high in tannins which give it a bit of a horrible mouth feel. It works okay when mixed with the other stuff I use which makes it more tolerable. Adding the powder to capsules is a bit of a hassle.

There are other vitamin C co nutrients such as rutin, hesperidin and quercetin which can also be beneficial.

Quercetin would be worth looking at in particular as it can stabilize mast cell membranes to reduce their release of histamine. Also I heard/read possibly on this forum, that very high doses of vitamin C around > 4 grams at a time can cause mast cells to release histamine. I do not know how accurate this is but it might be worth investigating and keeping your intake of Vit C no greater than this level and take it on a regular basis. ie little and often.

Quercetin bioavailability is meant to be poor so you would need to look for something which improves it's absorption. Some types are more bioavailable than others which would be worth investigating before purchasing to make sure that you are getting the best from it. BTW I do eat lots of red onions and apples which are both fairly high in quercetin so this is probably why I favour these foods. Food sources are relatively low compared to supplements and the bioavailability is also most likely fairly low. It's the skins of apples which contain quercetin.

These are collectively called bioflavonoids and have varying degrees of antioxidant properties and other beneficial properties including some have been shown to have anti cancer properties. Most of them will be beneficial to the circulatory system and do help vitamin c.

Collagen which there are a number of different forms used in different areas, requires vitamin c for it's production.

Linus Pauling the originator of Pauling therapy believed that lack of vitamin C was the underlying cause of circulatory disease. I believe that cholesterol responsibility is a falsehood which only benefits the drugs industry. Cholesterol can be used by the body to plug holes created by lack of insufficient vitamin c and collagen to repair the circulatory system.

BTW histamine is released in response to immune challenge by food molecules absorbed in the stomach. My idea is that this triggers a release of saliva and nasal mucus which urease bacteria use to produce ammonia to neutralise stomach acid. I get a lot of this with wind/burping from carbon dioxide produced by ammonia/acid reaction whenever I consume anything which is either acid or provokes acid production. I know that my histamine levels increased when I was 12 and the next summer I began experiencing hay fever for the first time. I never experienced hay fever before that and I have identified the event which created that.

I use ascorbic acid rather than expensive tablets or capsules. I purchase quite large quantities at a time such as 5Kg. I then react that and other acids such as amino acids with magnesium carbonate to form magnesium salts which are better absorbed. This stops bacteria reacting with ammonia. Magnesium carbonate is very versatile in this respect and quite inexpensive and also supplies large quantities of Magnesium being about 28% magnesium. It's quite cost effective for me. The downside is that it needs to be reacted in warm water which takes time and is less usable away from home.

 

[pamojja]

Wrote about my encouraging results of many years on Linus Pauling's recommendations in this post:

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/beware-of-ascorbic-acid.50456/#post-832295

Also I heard/read possibly on this forum, that very high doses of vitamin C around > 4 grams at a time can cause mast cells to release histamine. I do not know how accurate this is but it might be worth investigating and keeping your intake of Vit C no greater than this level and take it on a regular basis. ie little and often.

I rather heard it's antihistamine (can't find the source at the moment). In fact, when I started with high dose vitamin C (preferably in crystalline powder mixed in water at that doses) it showed effective at reducing hay-fever symptoms for a few hours. As effective as prescribed anti-histamines without the side-effects, I tried once.

 

[JaimeS]

I've used Horse Chestnut topically for ME/CFS related issues, but not internally.

I've used Vinpocetine for BV-related issues, but it was only important at onset; a few months thereafter, it actually became a poor idea. Basically, it was great for relieving pain and congestion at the back of my neck, but worsened my POTS symptoms. For awhile, that was a good trade-off; eventually, not so much.

Finally, the extreme vasodilation that comes post-exertion for me (especially in hands and feet) is somewhat relieved by CoQ10 and by pH Basic, by Enzymedica.

 

[ebethc]

@JaimeS
Do you think POTS is related to mast cell issues? I don't have POTS issues myself, but I've wondered if it's on a spectrum where I may have the same thing to a much smaller degree.. arginine and increased blood flow was great until the arginine made me crash..

How effective is the topical Horse Chestnut? I'd love to find something that doesn't have to go through my digestive tract..

I'd like to get one of those compression leg massagers on Amazon, but ~$450 w tax, so....search for this to find it;
"Sequential Air Compression Leg Massager. Blood & Lymphatic Circulation Therapy System. Recovery Boots. Recovery Pump."

EDIT: I just discovered proteolytic enzymes, and I found it interesting that one of the helpful ones is named "vascuzyme" .. I'm not sure how proteolytic enzymes / systemic enzymes help circulation and inflammation but that's one of the few things that helps... the supps that target inflammation like turmeric, boswellia and so on do nothing... algal DHA Helps, too

 

[ebethc]

@pamojja @Carl

I wonder if high vitamin c causes problems due to the corn (most vit c is sourced from corn; the kind I get is tapioca derived)

Vitamin C is known to break down histamine (as is l plantarum and b infantis)

Yep, quercetin is great! One of the few things that helps!

 

[JaimeS]

How effective is the topical Horse Chestnut?

The impression I get is that it's great for varicose veins over a very long period of time. I'm not sure how effective it would be for us. Hey, if it's not too expensive it might be worth a try, though...

 

[pamojja]

I actually don't have problems with high vitamin C intake, the opposite (see other post I linked to). Only when I tried to access my bowel-intolerance I got increasingly flatulence and above 50 g/d loose stool. But of course, we all react differently.

 

[ebethc]

The impression I get is that it's great for varicose veins over a very long period of time. I'm not sure how effective it would be for us. Hey, if it's not too expensive it might be worth a try, though...

Have u tried proteolytic enzymes (see edits from last post)

 

[Carl]

Wrote about my encouraging results of many years on Linus Pauling's recommendations in this post:
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/beware-of-ascorbic-acid.50456/#post-832295

I have read many similar stories on the vitamincfoundation forum. It's good to hear that you got some benefit. My results have not been so encouraging. I know that my stomach infection is having a very negative effect on my circulatory system and my digestive permeability is higher than the majority of CFS sufferers. Couple that with a family history of such problems and I suspect the severest form of folate metabolism problems and on top of all this add type 1 diabetes and I am really up against it. I am thinking about adding quercetin because my dietary intake is probably not sufficient.

I rather heard it's antihistamine (can't find the source at the moment). In fact, when I started with high dose vitamin C (preferably in crystalline powder mixed in water at that doses) it showed effective at reducing hay-fever symptoms for a few hours. As effective as prescribed anti-histamines without the side-effects, I tried once.

As to the vit c, I do remember 4 grams being a factor and no one uses 4 grams of antihistamines so I do not think it was antihistamines. Lower doses of vit c is meant to have an antihistamine effect but larger doses were meant to have a very different effect. I am certain that I saw it somewhere on this forum but it could of just been speculation or guesswork on behalf of the person who posted it. I do not know and have no idea in which thread I saw it. Keeping the dose low avoids any problems and tends to prevent any bowel issues unless the doses are increases considerably which I have problems doing. I can get to 12 grams/day but have trouble finding the time to have more than that. I could do with more though.

 

[JaimeS]

EDIT: I just discovered proteolytic enzymes, and I found it interesting that one of the helpful ones is named "vascuzyme" .. I'm not sure how proteolytic enzymes / systemic enzymes help circulation and inflammation but that's one of the few things that helps... the supps that target inflammation like turmeric, boswellia and so on do nothing... algal DHA Helps, too

I've got a bunch of enzymatic therapy products that differ superficially and are quite helpful for me in general.

Boswellia is in my vitamin B blend, so I take it every day; when I tried to replace with another vitamin B blend, it didn't go so well for me. I think it's a vital part of the whole. I take algal DHA as well.

-J

 

[JaimeS]

es on the vitamincfoundation forum. It's good to hear that you got some benefit.
I have read many similar stories on the vitamincfoundation forum. It's good to hear that you got some benefit.
I have read many similar stories on the vitamincfoundation forum. It's good to hear that you got some benefit.
I have read many similar stories on the vitamincfoundation forum. It's good to hear that you got some benefi

Whoooaaa Carl, pls edit!

 

[pamojja]

Whoooaaa @Carl, pls edit!

I second that request, it hurts the eye and sensitivities. Actually vitamincfoundation can be quite biased. Many times someone reported no benefits, he/she gets blamed doing something wrong. Its more complex than that.

 

[Carl]

Whoooaaa Carl, pls edit!

Sorry about that. I was having some browser problems where editing was not responding. Copy past was not working and repeating did nothing. I did not see all of those repeats when I posted it. There was a half hour delay whenever I did anything.

Grrrr@firefox, it works slower than a damn snail at times. My mind works faster than it does and it gets very frustrating using it. Restarting makes little difference.

 

[Carl]

I second that request, it hurts the eye and sensitivities. Actually vitamincfoundation can be quite biased. Many times someone reported no benefits, he/she gets blamed doing something wrong. Its more complex than that.

Many people do find benefits but there are a few who fail to get a response and the people on that forum do not seem able to work out why.