Blood test for Quinolinic Acid (Neurotoxin) available:

[Research 1st]

Hi everyone.

I saw that REDLABS (now USA as well as Europe) updated their blood forms a few weeks ago and now you can test quinolinic acid in your blood. (Previously it was kynurenic acid only on the forms).

Before this, I believe another way patients tend to measure quinolinic acid was to use the 24hr OAT urine test from Great Plains Laboratory.

Just thought I'd share and would be interesting to see if any of KDM's patients have tested and got their blood tests back. If possible it would interesting for those who have to kindly report back here if they also have Borrelia or its co-infections tested as well (if they have high Quinolinic acid levels in their blood).

On a related topic of neurotoxins, remember if you test for serum ammonia searching for a not uncommon Lyme disease finding of hyperammonemia, this can be normal, because in Lyme related illnesses the tissue levels of ammonia can be elevated (e.g. brain), but your blood levels are normal.

Thank you.

 

[Valentijn]

Just thought I'd share and would be interesting to see if any of KDM's patients have tested and got their blood tests back.

I just got tested for it, don't have the results though. I was diagnosed with Borrelia and Bartonella.

 

[Glycon]

if you test for serum ammonia searching for a not uncommon Lyme disease finding of hyperammonemia, this can be normal, because in Lyme related illnesses the tissue levels of ammonia can be elevated (e.g. brain), but your blood levels are normal.

I had elevated ammonia at onset of my condition (in samples taken a few days after I first noticed that i was sick). However, no subsequent test over several the years has (to the best of my recollection) shown elevated ammonia. Also, I was tested for Lyme and it was ruled out pretty conclusively.

Any idea what that could mean, if anything? Thanks!

 

[CFS_for_19_years]

I had elevated ammonia at onset of my condition (in samples taken a few days after I first noticed that i was sick). However, no subsequent test over several the years has (to the best of my recollection) shown elevated ammonia. Also, I was tested for Lyme and it was ruled out pretty conclusively.

Any idea what that could mean, if anything? Thanks!

https://labtestsonline.org/understanding/analytes/ammonia/tab/test

In children and adults, an elevated ammonia level may indicate that severe liver or kidney damage has impacted the body's ability to clear ammonia and that the brain may be affected. Frequently, an acute or chronic illness will act as a trigger, increasing ammonia levels to the point that an affected person has difficulty clearing the ammonia.

A normal blood ammonia level may mean that a person's signs and symptoms are due to a cause other than excess ammonia. However, normal concentrations of ammonia do not rule out hepatic encephalopathy. Other wastes can contribute to changes in mental function and consciousness, and brain levels of ammonia may be much higher than blood levels. This can make correlation of a person's symptoms to ammonia blood levels difficult.

Increased levels of ammonia may also be seen with:

• Gastrointestinal bleeding - blood cells are hemolyzed in the intestines, releasing protein.
• Muscular exertion - muscles produce ammonia when active and absorb it when resting.
• Tourniquet use - ammonia levels can be increased in the blood sample collected.
• Use of certain drugs, including alcohol, barbiturates, diuretics, valproic acid, and narcotics
• Cigarette smoking

 

[Glycon]

https://labtestsonline.org/understanding/analytes/ammonia/tab/test

Thanks. I know all that, however. I'm specifically curious about ammonia being elevated only at onset.

 

[justy]

Hi. I have a dx of Lyme and co infections. My Quinolinic acid was normal - and I have quite a lot of cognitive issues, especially significant memory issues and confusion. However my Kynurenic acid was very low below range. Still not sure of the significance of this or what it means as studies are all done on high Kynurenic acid.

 

[CFS_for_19_years]

Thanks. I know all that, however. I'm specifically curious about ammonia being elevated only at onset.

I believe this part is relevant:

Frequently, an acute or chronic illness will act as a trigger, increasing ammonia levels to the point that an affected person has difficulty clearing the ammonia.

For example, at the start of your illness, your body might had difficulty clearing the ammonia, but once time passed (and perhaps your symptoms lessened), your body was then able to clear the ammonia.

Were your symptoms worse at the time you had an elevated ammonia?

 

[halcyon]

However my Kynurenic acid was very low below range. Still not sure of the significance of this or what it means as studies are all done on high Kynurenic acid.

Perhaps your body is low on the substrate needed to produce it (i.e. tryptophan).

 

[Glycon]

For example, at the start of your illness, your body might had difficulty clearing the ammonia, but once time passed (and perhaps your symptoms lessened), your body was then able to clear the ammonia.

Were your symptoms worse at the time you had an elevated ammonia?

I did get better after that before getting worse again, yes. Never had elevated ammonia show up again, however.

The rest of it is a given. In a way, it's almost rephrasing my question. I'm curious whether anything specific that's been associated with ME/CFS (esp. in research that may not have made its way into clinical practice) could be indicated by it. (Please don't read ingratitude for your reply into this! )

 

[justy]

Perhaps your body is low on the substrate needed to produce it (i.e. tryptophan).

Yes I had been vaguely wondering this. The problem for me with taking something like 5HTP is that I had a VERY severe and prolonged reaction to an SSRI a number of years ago and I would be extremely hesitant to try anything that affects serotonin again. There is no way I could risk going through what I went through before - more than two years of complete hell 24 hrs a day.

 

[halcyon]

The problem for me with taking something like 5HTP is that I had a VERY severe and prolonged reaction to an SSRI a number of years ago and I would be extremely hesitant to try anything that affects serotonin again.

5HTP takes it the other direction:

 

[justy]

5HTP takes it the other direction:

Oh dear - sorry no idea what this all means - i'm a humanities girl so these kind of graphs are way outside my comfort zone. When you say it goes the other way what do you mean? I read (I know on the internet so not reliable) that 5HTP increases Tryptophan which increases Serotonin. Is this not right?

 

[halcyon]

When you say it goes the other way what do you mean? I read (I know on the internet so not reliable) that 5HTP increases Tryptophan which increases Serotonin. Is this not right?

Sorry, mixed up 5HTP and TPH. When you take 5HTP you bypass the rate limiting step in serotonin synthesis (where TPH turns tryptophan into 5HTP, which is then turned into serotonin). So taking 5HTP can cause increased serotonin synthesis, but I don't believe that taking tryptophan will necessarily increase serotonin synthesis.

 

[J.G]

Even under non-pathological conditions, an estimated 95% of tryptophan enters the QUIN pathway, only 5% or so entering the 5HTP pathway. ROS and certain inflammatory cytokines induce TDO and IDO while ROS also oxidise BH4 (the rate-limiting cofactor to the 5HTP pathway). To the extent that ME is characterised by oxistress and inflammation, the 95-5 ratio will trend further towards 100-0. Note that serotonin levels in ME have been found so low as to be nigh undetectable (Hornig).

 

[Gingergrrl]

I saw that REDLABS (now USA as well as Europe) updated their blood forms a few weeks ago and now you can test quinolinic acid in your blood.

Sorry for upcoming stupid question but does the neurotoxin quinolinic acid have any connection to fluoroquinolone antibiotics or are they totally unrelated and just have a similar name?

I had elevated ammonia at onset of my condition... However, no subsequent test over several the years has... shown elevated ammonia.

@Glycon I also had one test in Dec 2014 with elevated ammonia which was the same blood testing that first showed that I had 4x the normal level of histamine. I had been sick for almost two years at that point and it was the only test that showed high ammonia and all subsequent tests were normal. So my doctor was not worried about it and I have no idea what it meant.