bile acids role in metabolism and intracellular thyroid regulation

[Iritu1021]

Here's an excerpt from this "white paper
"https://www.clinicaleducation.org/wp-content/uploads/BileAcidsMakeYouLiveLonger.pdf

It describes the role of bile acids on several receptors, including TGR5
TGR5 has been defined as having four main roles:
1 An immunomodulatory role
2 Prevention of gallstones by acting as a potent antioxidant controller of nitric oxide production and protecting the liver against lipid peroxidation
3. A manipulator of metabolism and mitochondrial energy homeostasis
4 Cell proliferation and apoptosis

Even more importantly, bile acids also appear to play a role in intracellular thyroid metabolism, by directly stimulating type 2 deiodinase and also indirectly by lowering VLDL and thus affecting transport of T1AM, thyroid hormone antagonist which is transported by apoB100, a VLDL particle. (I have a lot of info about T1AM on my blog www.chronicfatiguediagnosis.com)

I'm curious if anyone has any experience to report with bile acids supplements?

 

[pattismith]

Here's an excerpt from this "white paper
"https://www.clinicaleducation.org/wp-content/uploads/BileAcidsMakeYouLiveLonger.pdf

It describes the role of bile acids on several receptors, including TGR5
TGR5 has been defined as having four main roles:
1 An immunomodulatory role
2 Prevention of gallstones by acting as a potent antioxidant controller of nitric oxide production and protecting the liver against lipid peroxidation
3. A manipulator of metabolism and mitochondrial energy homeostasis
4 Cell proliferation and apoptosis

Even more importantly, bile acids also appear to play a role in intracellular thyroid metabolism, by directly stimulating type 2 deiodinase and also indirectly by lowering VLDL and thus affecting transport of T1AM, thyroid hormone antagonist which is transported by apoB100, a VLDL particle. (I have a lot of info about T1AM on my blog www.chronicfatiguediagnosis.com)

I'm curious if anyone has any experience to report with bile acids supplements?

This is really amazing!

Lot's of ME/CFS patients have Spina GD in the low range which indicates a deficit in type 1 or type 2 Deiodinases activity, so many of us could benefit from it;

I will order some, and start it soon, thank you very much @Iritu1021

 

[Iritu1021]

Reading further about bile acid metabolism, it seems like it might be good to take them with some taurine or glycine to ensure adequate conjugation.
Let me know how it goes for you, @pattismith . My guess is that it will take at least a month to take an effect since it works on genomic level. My GD is already on the high side so I guess it's not really the right one for me but I might still give it a try.

 

[aquariusgirl]

http://www.beyondmthfr.com/estrogen-choline-and-the-gallbladder/

 

[Eastman]

High cholesterol in the elderly has been shown in studies to be correlated to lower mortality and it is maybe not a mere coincidence that cholesterol is needed to make bile acids.

Serum total cholesterol levels and all-cause mortality in a home-dwelling elderly population: a six-year follow-up: Participants with low serum total cholesterol seem to have a lower survival rate than participants with an elevated cholesterol level, irrespective of concomitant diseases or health status.

Lipids and All-Cause Mortality among Older Adults: A 12-Year Follow-Up Study: The results indicate higher mortality among older people with lower levels of total cholesterol. Furthermore, they show no association between all-cause mortality and hypercholesterolemia, high LDL-c, low HDL-c, hypertriglyceridemia, and high non-HDL-c in this group of older adults.

Association of lipoprotein levels with mortality in subjects aged 50 + without previous diabetes or cardiovascular disease: A population-based register study: In conclusion, our population-based study shows that high TC, HDL-C, or LDL-C levels in the elderly are associated with a lower all-cause mortality compared with the group with the recommended low lipoprotein level.

Lack of an association or an inverse association between low-density-lipoprotein cholesterol and mortality in the elderly: a systematic review: High LDL-C is inversely associated with mortality in most people over 60 years.

Combining LDL-C and HDL-C to predict survival in late life: The InChianti study: Our findings suggest that, in community dwelling older individuals, the combined presence of optimal/near optimal LDL-C and low HDL-C represents a marker of increased future mortality.

 

[Eastman]

I'm curious if anyone has any experience to report with bile acids supplements?

I remember there was some discussion of bile supplements and TUDCA in the following threads:

Unfolded Protein Response and A Possible Treatment for CFS

Over Activation of Farnesoid X Receptor In the Ilium Driving Liver and Gut Disharmony

 

[Iritu1021]

High cholesterol in the elderly has been shown in studies to be correlated to lower mortality and it is maybe not a mere coincidence that cholesterol is needed to make bile acids.

Serum total cholesterol levels and all-cause mortality in a home-dwelling elderly population: a six-year follow-up: Participants with low serum total cholesterol seem to have a lower survival rate than participants with an elevated cholesterol level, irrespective of concomitant diseases or health status.

Lipids and All-Cause Mortality among Older Adults: A 12-Year Follow-Up Study: The results indicate higher mortality among older people with lower levels of total cholesterol. Furthermore, they show no association between all-cause mortality and hypercholesterolemia, high LDL-c, low HDL-c, hypertriglyceridemia, and high non-HDL-c in this group of older adults.

Association of lipoprotein levels with mortality in subjects aged 50 + without previous diabetes or cardiovascular disease: A population-based register study: In conclusion, our population-based study shows that high TC, HDL-C, or LDL-C levels in the elderly are associated with a lower all-cause mortality compared with the group with the recommended low lipoprotein level.

Lack of an association or an inverse association between low-density-lipoprotein cholesterol and mortality in the elderly: a systematic review: High LDL-C is inversely associated with mortality in most people over 60 years.

Combining LDL-C and HDL-C to predict survival in late life: The InChianti study: Our findings suggest that, in community dwelling older individuals, the combined presence of optimal/near optimal LDL-C and low HDL-C represents a marker of increased future mortality.

I have long suspected that the push for lower and lower cholesterol levels is a big conspiracy on the part of multi-billion dollar industry. And for people with CFS, who according to Naviaux study have a metabolic profile that's opposite to that of metabolic syndrome, I think high fat high cholesterol diet it is even more likely to be only beneficial.

 

[Iritu1021]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22162464
CONCLUSIONS:
Our data support a role of BA in human energy metabolism and in thyroid hormone control. Even though no convincing response to BA was demonstrated in TSHoma and TαT1 cells, the TSH decrease after a nutritional challenge suggests an interaction of BA on the set point of the thyroid axis.

 

[Gondwanaland]

I have read that supplementing with pig pancreatin can reactivate viruses. I wonder how safe is bile acid supplementation. Any reports?

 

[Iritu1021]

I have read that supplementing with pig pancreatin can reactivate viruses. I wonder how safe is bile acid supplementation. Any reports?

honestly, I'm not sure... Do you know what was proposed as the mechanism of that reactivation? also bile supplements come from ox, not pig.

 

[Gondwanaland]

I don't know. It was a warning from a pancreatin manufacturer.

 

[pattismith]

I didn't see any change while I took bile acid, but today I start TUDCA.

It was shown to raise D2 activity in brown adipose tissu, so it's worth give a try...

 

[frozenborderline]

I didn't see any change while I took bile acid, but today I start TUDCA.

It was shown to raise D2 activity in brown adipose tissu, so it's worth give a try...

i have tudca and am considering starting. Lmk how it goes

 

[ljimbo423]

i have tudca and am considering starting. Lmk how it goes

Just want to let you know that bile acids can cause really bad bacterial die-off symptoms. From killing bacteria in the gut.

I take a digestive enzyme with 150mg ox bile in it. I had to start with just 1/4 tab because the die-off symptoms were so strong. I think tudca is even stronger than ox bile.

 

[frozenborderline]

High cholesterol in the elderly has been shown in studies to be correlated to lower mortality and it is maybe not a mere coincidence that cholesterol is needed to make bile acids.

Serum total cholesterol levels and all-cause mortality in a home-dwelling elderly population: a six-year follow-up: Participants with low serum total cholesterol seem to have a lower survival rate than participants with an elevated cholesterol level, irrespective of concomitant diseases or health status.

Lipids and All-Cause Mortality among Older Adults: A 12-Year Follow-Up Study: The results indicate higher mortality among older people with lower levels of total cholesterol. Furthermore, they show no association between all-cause mortality and hypercholesterolemia, high LDL-c, low HDL-c, hypertriglyceridemia, and high non-HDL-c in this group of older adults.

Association of lipoprotein levels with mortality in subjects aged 50 + without previous diabetes or cardiovascular disease: A population-based register study: In conclusion, our population-based study shows that high TC, HDL-C, or LDL-C levels in the elderly are associated with a lower all-cause mortality compared with the group with the recommended low lipoprotein level.

Lack of an association or an inverse association between low-density-lipoprotein cholesterol and mortality in the elderly: a systematic review: High LDL-C is inversely associated with mortality in most people over 60 years.

Combining LDL-C and HDL-C to predict survival in late life: The InChianti study: Our findings suggest that, in community dwelling older individuals, the combined presence of optimal/near optimal LDL-C and low HDL-C represents a marker of increased future mortality.

I have been hypothesizing that low cholesterol might be why I'm not responding well to thyroid treatment or sun at the moment. Havent' had a cholesterol blood test for awhile

 

[FMMM1]

Just want to let you know that bile acids can cause really bad bacterial die-off symptoms. From killing bacteria in the gut.

I take a digestive enzyme with 150mg ox bile in it. I had to start with just 1/4 tab because the die-off symptoms were so strong. I think tudca is even stronger than ox bile.

Hi I recall someone who was interested in liver function/bile etc. I'm guessing it was you @ljimbo423

There's an article on this site you may be interested in
Bile acid transporter SLCO3A1 and ME
http://followmeindenmark.blogspot.com/2018/11/

 

[ljimbo423]

Hi I recall someone who was interested in liver function/bile etc. I'm guessing it was you @ljimbo423

There's an article on this site you may be interested in
Bile acid transporter SLCO3A1 and ME
http://followmeindenmark.blogspot.com/2018/11/

I don't think it was me you're thinking of. I did find the link you posted really interesting though.

 

[Gondwanaland]

Just want to let you know that bile acids can cause really bad bacterial die-off symptoms.

Would it cause pain underneath the lowest front rib, left side?

 

[ljimbo423]

Would it cause pain underneath the lowest front rib, left side?

I honestly don't know, sorry. I get fatigue, aches, pains etc. from the die-off but no pain underneath the lowest front rib left side.