Benzodiazepines (Temazepam) don’t help sleep - your experience

[Kenny Banya]

Doxylamine (an anti-histamine) seems most effective
What drugs have helped you?

 

[Learner1]

Many drugs damage mitochondria. Not a good thing for chronic fatigue...

These things have helped me sleep:

Amino acids - ornithine, citrulline, glycine, theanine, 5-HTP, GABA

Hormones - melatonin, pregnenolone, progesterone

Minerals - calcium, magnesium

Phosphatidyl serine

Kavinace (phenylbut) - careful, this one is addictive, although I got off it pretty easily


A couple of things I learned along the eay. Metabolonics studies have shown ME/CFS patients:

1) may have a PDH block causing increased burning of aminos to make energy.

2) may be deficient in nitric oxide, which is what citrulline and ornithine support

3) may have abnormal cortisol patterns - if you're making it in the middle of the night, you won't sleep. That's where phosphatidyl serine can help. And calming things like GABA, theanine, glycine and magnesium can all play roles.

And, if I'm desperate, benadryl.

 

[Thinktank]

Benzodiazpines are highly addictive and tolerance builds up quickly, i think it's the worst medication ever for sleep.

If herbs like @Learner1 mentioned don't work then you could try some other things.

For example a TCA like mirtazapine, amytriptyline or doxepin.

Other things i can think of are:
Baclofen (GABA-B agonist)
Gabapentine
Afobazol (anxiolytic, but doesn't have an effect on the GABA receptors)

Milder stuff:
Magnesium malate 200mg
Bacopa monieri
L-theanine

Gabaergic herbs like valerian, passionflower, chamomile etc. But just like benzo's a tolerance can be built up to these herbs, causing withdrawal effects when discontinued.

 

[Jenny]

Clonazepam is the best thing I've ever tried for sleep. I take 1mg about twice a week and zopliclone at other times, which is also good. Done this for years and so far don't seem to have built up tolerance. Nothing else works - I've tried all kinds of herbs and supplements, and amytriptyline.

 

[Learner1]

If herbs like @Learner1 mentioned don't work then you could try some other things.

For example a TCA like mirtazapine, amytriptyline or doxepin.

Other things i can think of are:
Baclofen (GABA-B agonist)
Gabapentine
Afobazol (anxiolytic, but doesn't have an effect on the GABA receptors)

Milder stuff:
Magnesium malate 200mg
Bacopa monieri
L-theanine

Er, I don't think so mentioned herbs. I mentioned magnesium, theanine, GABA, and other nutrients and hormones.

Giving the body what it needs to do its job is a lot better than taking a pharmaceutical drug which runs the risk of damaging mitochondria and negatively impacting energy production.

 

[heapsreal]

The newer Z drug benzo class are much better at inducing sleep but always good to alternate them with drug free nights or drugs in another class like antihistamines. Theres several antihistamines that could be used for sleep also. The more the better to swap and change to help reduce tolerance.

In cfsers with severe chronic insomnia i dont see addiction/reliance being an issue. With crap sleep u wont get better without it. Tolerance is a different issue but take it seriously and alternating different meds regularly to avoid tolerance.

 

[bombsh3ll]

I do like benzodiazepines and I think the "dangers" of addiction and tolerance are greatly overplayed. It is unfortunate that a valuable class of drugs has become stigmatized due to abuse by a minority. When tolerance has been formally studied in large populations prescribed a benzodiazepine, no dose escalation was seen over a period of time.

I do try and keep my use to a minimum but used sensibly they are a good option if they work for you.

 

[jesse's mom]

I went to my sleep specialist yesterday. My insomnia is chronic and I do not sleep for up to 4 days at a time for more than two hours without a benzodiazepine.
So much stigma and fear around this class of drugs. I have been on the same dose of Halcion for sleep for 7 or more years.
Yesterday my Dr was sure to remind me that clonazepam is longer acting than Halcion and not to use them together. Always 4 hours apart. I take the clonazepam for anxiety attacks and not every day.
I was taking xanax for years and years, there seemed to be more of a physical dependence for that. I stopped taking them suddenly... nothing happened to me except I didn't sleep for a few days.
Quitting alcohol suddenly is really one way have a dangerous detox.
Cannabis, no physical detox.
we really have some nutso laws in this world.

 

[Thinktank]

If you're not developing any tolerance or interdose withdrawal to the benzodiazepine, then great for you!
Hundred thousands of people have developed severe benzodiazepine withdrawal syndrome, including me. There is a very valid reason for the class of drugs to be feared and loathed.

Most doctors know jack about benzodiazepines but prescribe them like candy, a very worrying trend imo.

 

[percyval577]

I´ve read there would be benzodiazepines in agaricus, only of small amount of course. Last summer I once bought a lot of them and got a very nice effect. But it never appeared a second time. Being this my first (and onliest) experience I would think at first glance that addiction could easily take place.

Quitting alcohol suddenly is really one way have a dangerous detox. Cannabis, no physical detox. we really have some nutso laws in this world.

I was told cannabis has become forbidden only because the alcohol industry didn´t want any competition, back in 1900 or so. What a nonsense.

 

[Mary]

I was on lorazepam for 10 years - started with 0.5 mg middle of the night for sleep and eventually went up to 1 mg middle of the night. About 8 years in I learned that benzos have a proven link to Alzheimer's, which is what motivated me to get off of it. And though I consider myself pretty knowledgeable when it comes to drugs and supplements, I wasn't prepared for how hard it was to get off of it - how very bad my sleep became. I didn't realize my brain had adapted to it.

It was a long slow process trying to get my sleep normalized. The taper itself lasted 7 months or so, but trying to get sleep took another year. Things would help for a short time and then stop working. I tried various antihistamines, Chinese herbs with jujube extract which was very helpful, for a few weeks, always a few weeks. Also a couple of things that helped mop up excess glutamate.

Finally after having a hair analysis done several weeks ago, I learned that my calcium/magnesium ratio was very heavily skewed in favor of calcium. I was told to stop my calcium supplement (at least temporarily) and I increased my magnesium. I also stopped taking magnesium during the day and take it only at night now, before bed and in the middle of the night. And I'm finally getting some halfway decent sleep. It's still a balancing act, but much better than before.

I take a ridiculous amount of stuff but it works. I have a very tolerance for drugs. I tried Baclofen and didn't like how it made me feel and also trazodone which helped some for awhile but it made me tired during the day and then I reached a point where it didn't work and I did not want to increase it. And I didn't like the feeling of being under the influence of a drug, which I had from trazodone.

Before bed:
400 - 500 mg mag glycinate
200 mg 5-htp
3000 mg glycine
3 mg sublingual melatonin
1000 mg inositol
500 mg niacin (stimulates GABA receptors - it's very effective, the kind that makes you flush)
300 mg l-theanine

Middle of the night:
300 - 400 mg mag glycinate
2000 mg glycine
1.5 mg melatonin
1000 mg inositol
300 - 400 mg niacin
200 mg l-theanine
200 mg l-theanine

 

[geraldt52]

If you're not developing any tolerance or interdose withdrawal to the benzodiazepine, then great for you!
Hundred thousands of people have developed severe benzodiazepine withdrawal syndrome, including me. There is a very valid reason for the class of drugs to be feared and loathed.

Most doctors know jack about benzodiazepines but prescribe them like candy, a very worrying trend imo.

Even more importantly, for those considering going down the benzo path, if (perhaps more likely when) you develop a problem your doctor will likely be of no help whatsoever, and you'll be on your own to figure out how to put the genie back in the bottle. Make no mistake, benzos can be dangerous, and they can make your life a living hell, for years, if you get into trouble. They can also be very effective...and therein lies the trap. Once burned though, you will never want to repeat the experiment.

 

[Seven7]

Depending what you issues is, the kind of drug you need.
If you have issues to fall sleep then this inducer is a good idea, if you have issues staying sleep, this kind of drug does nothing. Trazadone is a stage 4 sleeper is what you need to stay sleep (the issue ussually found on CFS is stage 4 issues).
To begin with I was given both (benzo+trazadone) then I got off the benzo (no issues for me) and I am now mostly off trazadone. I may use occasionally is have a few days having issues, but for most part I am off all sleep meds. Took about 4 years on trazadone for my sleep to get fixed (as my cfs got better).

 

[Kenny Banya]

Trazadone is a stage 4 sleeper is what you need to stay sleep (the issue ussually found on CFS is stage 4 issues)..

Thanks for that. I will try it

 

[Learner1]

"Trazodone caused an increase in reactive oxygen species (ROS) formation, malondialdehyde accumulation, depletion of intracellular reduced glutathione (GSH), rise of oxidized glutathione disulfide (GSSG), and a decrease in mitochondrial membrane potential, which confirms the role of oxidative stress in trazodone-induced cytotoxicity.

Preincubation of hepatocytes with taurine prevented ROS formation, lipid peroxidation, depletion of intracellular reduced GSH, and increase of oxidized GSSG. Taurine could also protect mitochondria against trazodone-induced toxicity. Administration of melatonin reduced the toxic effects of trazodone in isolated rat hepatocytes."

From: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/24023050/

 

[jesse's mom]

@Learner1 , I really want to understand this... could you please say in again in layman's terms.