Bacillus subtilis probiotic may eliminate Staphylococcus from the gut and the nasopharynx

[Hip]

You can go a lot more than that, the Super Yoghurt approach gets you to about 250 billion for 100ml or so.

I am actually now going to attempt the the super yogurt recipe (involving inulin) you posted above.

One question I have: if this recipe can produce 250 billion friendly bacteria per 100 ml, so that would be 2500 billion in a litre, then just 1 litre could last you a year, if you took a dose of about 7 billion bacteria a day. So that would be amazingly economical.

But I wonder how you might preserve the 1 litre containing 2500 billion bacteria. Would you have any ideas about that?

Do you know roughly what the shelf life is of this super yogurt, if kept in the fridge?



If you made up a whole litre, perhaps you could divide the 1 litre into say 12 equal parts (one part for each month of the year), and freeze them.

Then each month, you could take one of these 12th parts out from the freezer, and consume a little bit each day, keeping it in the fridge. That might work, provided the 12th part would last for 1 month in a fridge.


Or I guess another approach might just be to make a batch of this super yogurt every month, leaving it in the fridge, and consuming a little bit each day. I just wonder how long it lasts in the fridge.

 

[BrightCandle]

Do you know roughly what the shelf life is of this super yogurt, if kept in the fridge?

About a week. It definitely changes over time and you can see it become more acidic and split as the week goes on, it starts to get a film and then fungus growing on the top if you leave it longer. I am not taking in at the moment which has been a mixed thing, guts are worse but it also contributed a lot to weight gain so I am making a new pot every week just to keep it alive so I have a seed for it in a few weeks/months time since the first few from the tablets and such are definitely worse/different. I don't think you can store a litres of it you would need to make a batch each week using some of the week before as your starter.

I also doubt I ever got up to 250 billion bacteria. I have always had issues with it splitting past about 20 hours so I tended to limit to that, which is a lot of doublings I didn't get which are apparently every 2 hours so a 120ml of my yoghurt was probably about 7 billion. Once it starts splitting they are running out of food so its going to limit it. Never worked out how to avoid the problem.

 

[Hip]

About a week. It definitely changes over time and you can see it become more acidic and split as the week goes on, it starts to get a film and then fungus growing on the top if you leave it longer.

When I was researching how to store and preserve live bacteria (in the context of the Markov stuff), I discovered that bacteriologists use glycerol (glycerine) for this purpose. They use typically 10% to 20% glycerol, and then freeze. That can preserve live bacteria for decades.

I got those details from this thread. I believe glycerol is a bacteriostatic which does not harm bacteria, but prevents other bacteria and moulds from growing.

So maybe adding a small amount of glycerol to the super yogurt would help preserve it for longer.

I believe oral glycerol is safe; this study gave glycerol 1.2 g/kg body weight, and it was found to boost aerobic and anaerobic exercise performance (so might be beneficial for ME/CFS anyway).



Regarding the acidity: would it make sense do you think to add some bicarbonate of soda at some point late in the brewing process, to reduce acidity? Would this perhaps improve the taste, and also allow more bacteria to grow?

 

[Consul]

Im using Dicloxacillin orion now on the 5th day as prevention after having possibly a nail in my hand flat or something.

This thing is narrow spectrum and is supposed to take out Staphylococcus bacteria. I am feeling a bit better these days but im also testing a number of other new things atm so hard to know why or if it will last.

There was an article in 2022 from a Swede Goran Falck that apparently had contacted Komaroff about his findings on Staphylococcus in mecfs.

 

[brightside]

@Hip

So did you ever do the vaccine injection? Or did I just skip over it?

 

[Hip]

@Hip So did you ever do the vaccine injection? Or did I just skip over it?

I have not re-tried the Staphylococcus vaccine yet, because it tends to trigger these mental health symptoms, and at the moment, my ME/CFS and mental health have become worse (increased fatigue, brain fog an depression), due to catching COVID last year (I think I now have long COVID on top of ME/CFS). So I am trying to find some solutions for these mental symptoms before I re-test the vaccine.


I've actually got two types of Staphylococcus vaccines waiting in my fridge: the Russian Staphylococcus toxoid vaccine which can be used for the Gottfries ME/CFS treatment (this vaccine previously put me into near remission for a few weeks, before it started triggering mental health side effects).

And also the Staphylococcus vaccine that Dr Markov prescribed me. This Staphylococcus vaccine is one of several bacterial vaccines Dr Markov gave me, as part of his autovaccine protocol for ME/CFS (which his published study claims completely and permanently cures 93% of his ME/CFS patients). See this thread about the Markov protocol for ME/CFS.

 

[brightside]

I have not re-tried the Staphylococcus vaccine yet, because it tends to trigger these mental health symptoms, and at the moment, my ME/CFS and mental health have become worse (increased fatigue, brain fog an depression), due to catching COVID last year (I think I now have long COVID on top of ME/CFS). So I am trying to find some solutions for these mental symptoms before I re-test the vaccine.


I've actually got two types of Staphylococcus vaccines waiting in my fridge: the Russian Staphylococcus toxoid vaccine which can be used for the Gottfries ME/CFS treatment (this vaccine previously put me into near remission for a few weeks, before it started triggering mental health side effects).

And also the Staphylococcus vaccine that Dr Markov prescribed me. This Staphylococcus vaccine is one of several bacterial vaccines Dr Markov gave me, as part of his autovaccine protocol for ME/CFS (which his published study claims completely and permanently cures 93% of his ME/CFS patients). See this thread about the Markov protocol for ME/CFS.

Ahh, sorry about that.

It's obviously risk and I see your hesitation. I was pretty curious how things would go, especially in conjunction with the probiotic. I assume you aren't taking that anymore?

I did read that thread before, and it left me feeling highly skeptical. I don't know what to believe, but it does seem plausible. Are you actually planning to use either, or your goal is to fix long COVID first or something like that?

 

[Hip]

Are you actually planning to use either, or your goal is to fix long COVID first or something like that?

I am just aiming to fix the strong depression that appeared several months after I caught COVID, and then hopefully when I am in a more robust mental state, I will continue with the Staphylococcus vaccine, and with Dr Markov's protocol.

 

[brightside]

I am just aiming to fix the strong depression that appeared several months after I caught COVID, and then hopefully when I am in a more robust mental state, I will continue with the Staphylococcus vaccine, and with Dr Markov's protocol.

Gotcha.

I don't know much about long COVID, but I did see a study early on which connected it to mitochondrial inhibiton/dysfunction, and it said that NAD precursors, selenium, CoQ10 and other such substances were helpful. Do you use any of these, or they don't have any meaningful effects?

 

[Hip]

I don't know much about long COVID, but I did see a study early on which connected it to mitochondrial inhibiton/dysfunction, and it said that NAD precursors, selenium, CoQ10 and other such substances were helpful. Do you use any of these, or they don't have any meaningful effects?

High-dose selenium I have taken daily for 10 years, and it substantially improves my ME/CFS. Every time I stop I get worse again. I have a thread on it here. Though this selenium treatment unfortunately did not do much for most other ME/CFS patients.

Q10 does not do much for me, though I've not tried it again since getting long COVID. But I am trying dozens of supplements and drugs at present. My usual antidepressant drugs are struggling to fix this depression, which makes me think it might be due to some deeper causes, but I have not been able to figure out what.

 

[brightside]

High-dose selenium I have taken daily for 10 years, and it substantially improves my ME/CFS. Every time I stop I get worse again. I have a thread on it here. Though this selenium treatment unfortunately did not do much for most other ME/CFS patients.

Q10 does not do much for me, though I've not tried it again since getting long COVID. But I am trying dozens of supplements and drugs at present. My usual antidepressant drugs are struggling to fix this depression, which makes me think it might be due to some deeper causes, but I have not been able to figure out what.

Huh! I take quite a bit of selenium, because It helps me maintain my high dose B1. I usually eat around 6-8 brazil nuts. Sometimes I take selenomethionine, although I find that 200mcg is a bit too weak. I don't stay super consistent because I was worried about toxicity, but seeing that you have been taking it for 10 years I will definitely try 400mcg through pills. (nuts have too much PUFA) Thanks for that thread!

Have you ever tried high dose B1? ~1800mg+ of thiamine HCL, or ~200mg+ of TTFD? Lower doses do not produce the same effect.

Sorry, but I see mitochondrial inhibition in everything haha. IMO, that explains unmanageable depression, although obviously excess IFN/LPS would create treatment resistant depression as well.

 

[Hip]

Have you ever tried high dose B1? ~1800mg+ of thiamine HCL, or ~200mg+ of TTFD? Lower doses do not produce the same effect.

I've tried sulbutiamine. This produces a powerful stimulant-like mental effect in me, gives me lots of energy, focus and motivation. Unfortunately the day after, I get a sort of hangover, where I feel tired, mentally depleted and depressed. Like a stimulant comedown.

I am not sure if TTFD would cause the same stimulant and then comedown effects as sulbutiamine. They are both vitamin B1 derivatives. Generally I don't get on with stimulants, because I tend to get these comedown effects the next day.

 

[splusholia]

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanmic/article/PIIS2666-5247(22)00322-6/fulltext

Finally, it is important to stress that on the basis of the underlying mechanism that we established in mice,
19 similar efficacy can only be expected from B subtilis strains that produce fengycins. According to our in-vitro results, this feature is absent from several frequently used commercially available B subtilis probiotic formulae, which is in contrast with the more widespread production of fengycins we previously detected in human isolates of that species.
19

Might this impact the brands that work/don’t work?

 

[Abha]

Thanks. In fact, in addition to his Staphylococcus vaccine, Dr Markov also prescribed me a few sublingual and intranasal vaccines similar to Ismigen, which contain killed bacteria like Staphylococcus and other bacterial species.

One is the IRS-19 nasal spray product, which targets Enterococcus, Klebsiella pneumoniae, Streptococcus, Staphylococcus and others. When I take this, it makes me feel slightly more tired.

@HIP& @BrightCandle & others....I have just received the IRS-19 Nasal spray plus Ismigen from OTC(Pavel).I didn't use crypto currency to buy them(cost about 47£s including transport to UK.)Pavel was very helpful and the items were well packed.Took about two weeks to receive them.I followed HIPs advice re how to buy from OTC. Thanks HIP.

Has anyone had bad side effects from these products?How did you go about using them?After the tablets/spray ran out did you buy more for continued use or did you stop at that point?Did you experience any benefit from these products(eg with Brain fog/headaches etc)?

I did buy the slides for doing Dr Markov's Protocol and I even had an incubator made but I never got around to doing that....Now the slides have expired.....and the SMO in Ukraine continues...I follow what others are doing and I may yet get around to doing that Protocol.

 

[Hip]

IRS-19 Nasal spray plus Ismigen

I used these as directed: IRS-19 sprayed into the nose, and Imudon sublingually.

 

[Cipher]

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanmic/article/PIIS2666-5247(22)00322-6/fulltext

Finally, it is important to stress that on the basis of the underlying mechanism that we established in mice,
19 similar efficacy can only be expected from B subtilis strains that produce fengycins. According to our in-vitro results, this feature is absent from several frequently used commercially available B subtilis probiotic formulae, which is in contrast with the more widespread production of fengycins we previously detected in human isolates of that species.
19

Might this impact the brands that work/don’t work?

On this topic I saw this on Reddit:

I contacted one of the researchers at the NIH and he said that not all strains of b. Subtilis work. MB40 is the one they used in the study, but it is not commercially available. The only commercially available strain that works according to Dr. Otto is HU58.

I hope that this helps people.

Key data from the study:

After four weeks of probiotic treatment, S. aureus in the stool, a proxy for gut S. aureus, declined by 97%. S. aureus in the nose declined by 65%. Between the effects on these two sites, the researchers estimated that probiotic treatment got rid of at least 95% of S. aureus in the human body.

In the people getting placebo treatment, S. aureus numbers did not change in either the gut or nose. The team found no other changes in microbiome composition among people who took the probiotic. They also saw no differences in side effects between the treatment and placebo groups.

Participants received 250 mg of probiotic B subtilis MB40 or placebo once per day for 30 days ...

 

[wolves2626]

I could only find a probiotics of bacillius species in my country. however not much effective I can say. May be it is because of the strain count which is 5 billion only. it was a mixture of 3 bacillus strains.

staph species found in my semen and eps cultures. antibiotics give me some relief however I could not use them long time because of yeast issues. mostly cephalosphorin antibiotics give relief.

can someone explain me how to make super yoghurt like in the book series of dummies . I want to add the probiotics of bacillus in it. and I am planning to buy a machine for fermenting. thank you.

 

[anne_likes_red]

I could only find a probiotics of bacillius species in my country. however not much effective I can say. May be it is because of the strain count which is 5 billion only. it was a mixture of 3 bacillus strains.

staph species found in my semen and eps cultures. antibiotics give me some relief however I could not use them long time because of yeast issues. mostly cephalosphorin antibiotics give relief.

can someone explain me how to make super yoghurt like in the book series of dummies . I want to add the probiotics of bacillus in it. and I am planning to buy a machine for fermenting. thank you.

I've been making the super gut SIBO yogurt (containing L Reuteri, L Gasseri and Bacillus Coagulans) since 2021. We just add a tbsp of each batch to the next as the starter. The first batch was made into starters and we froze those as 'insurance'.
I started with the exact products and method used in this Youtube video.

*FWIW I didn't actually notice any health improvement taking the SIBO yogurt but my husband loves it so much we've kept making it.

 

[hapl808]

*FWIW I didn't actually notice any health improvement taking the SIBO yogurt but my husband loves it so much we've kept making it.

Haha. I've found that with a few dietary interventions. Green tea has all sorts of magic components. I can't say it's cured my ME/CFS, but I certainly love green tea so I continue to drink it.

 

[Atlas]

On this topic I saw this on Reddit:

"MB40 is the one they used in the study, but it is not commercially available. The only commercially available strain that works according to Dr. Otto is HU58."

Key data from the study:

MB40 is also known as ATCC122264, and is being marketed as an ingredient named Sporevia, but I've been unable to find any supplements that actually have it yet.

Update:
I found a prebiotic/fiber blend which contains it:
https://shop.mindbodygreen.com/products/organic-fiber-potency

Update 2:
Also found a supplement selling MB40 under "Opti-Biome" branding. But it's only 1.5 billion CFUs. And combined with another species.

Update 3:
Another source of mb40 mentioned in the reddit thread. (15 Billion CFUs)


None of the above are standalone MB40 supplements though... it does seem like HU58 is a lot easier to find.

Who knows what the relative efficacy of HU58 would be. "It works" doesn't really tell us

From the study:

The OPTI-BIOME probiotic formula (with strain B subtilis MB40) was selected among several B subtilis strains frequently used in commercially available B subtilis probiotic or potentially probiotic formulae (Natto, R0179) on the basis of its considerably higher production of fengycins, which are the active molecules in B subtilis that inhibit the S aureus quorum-sensing system we had found to be essential for S aureus intestinal colonisation