Bacillus subtilis probiotic may eliminate Staphylococcus from the gut and the nasopharynx

[perchance dreamer]

I once had a staph sinus infection, and my doctor offered to let me try an ozone treatment, inhaled nasally. My symptoms went away, and the next time I had a sinus culture, staph did not show up. However, this nasal ozone treatment did not work for me when I had a pseudomonas sinus infection.

 

[zuperhero]

@Hip you probably already know the product but maybe not - in poland there a few oral vaccines(all of them have really similar composition) against Staphylococcus aureus, usually there are sublingual 30 tabs per pack, you take 1 tablet after waking up for 10 days, than you do 20 days break and repeat cycle 2 more times. So in total it takes 90 days, it can be reapeted after few months if needed, 1 pack(needed for the whole cycle) cost around 25e in pharmacy (unfortunately dx is needed)

*my translation of leaflet so there might be some spelling mistake

1 tablet of Ismigen contain 7 mg bacteria lysate:

• 6 billion Staphylococcus aureus
• 6 billion Streptococcus pyogenes
• 6 billion Streptococcus (viridans) oralis
• 6 billion Klebsiella pneumoniae
• 6 billion Klebsiella ozaenae
• 6 billion Haemophilus influenzae
• 6 billion Neisseria catarrhalis
• 6 billion Streptococcus pneumoniae

including type TY1 - 1 billion, type TY2 - 1 billion, type TY3 - 1 billion, type TY5 - 1 billion, type TY8 - 1 billion, type TY47 - 1 billion.
in addition every tablet contains 43 mg of glicyne

 

[pattismith]

I tried a Manuka honey nose spray, and it made my nose really stuff, which probably means it introduced inflammation. I had the same response to colloidal silver nose spray, grapefruit extract nose spray, and oregano nose spray. I had tried these sprays to combat sinus infections. I do, however, have an exceedingly sensitive nose and sinuses, so these sprays might be fine for other people.

I did my own Manuka solution, following the instructions in the study, with saline isotonic solution (NACL 0.9%) and manuka honey (0.5 to 1 gr for 5 ml). As mentionned in the study, I use immediately the solution to irrigate my nose in a supine position (by gravity the throat is irrigated too).
The study says twice a week, but I only did it once a week (two times), and tolerated it very well with a minimal discomfort.
I feel it may be beneficial, but it's only the bigining so too early to say.
If you have tolerance difficulty, I would recommand to try a smaller manuka concentration.

 

[Hip]

@Hip you probably already know the product but maybe not - in poland there a few oral vaccines(all of them have really similar composition) against Staphylococcus aureus, usually there are sublingual 30 tabs per pack, you take 1 tablet after waking up for 10 days, than you do 20 days break and repeat cycle 2 more times. So in total it takes 90 days, it can be reapeted after few months if needed, 1 pack(needed for the whole cycle) cost around 25e in pharmacy (unfortunately dx is needed)

Thanks. In fact, in addition to his Staphylococcus vaccine, Dr Markov also prescribed me a few sublingual and intranasal vaccines similar to Ismigen, which contain killed bacteria like Staphylococcus and other bacterial species.

One is the IRS-19 nasal spray product, which targets Enterococcus, Klebsiella pneumoniae, Streptococcus, Staphylococcus and others. When I take this, it makes me feel slightly more tired.

I am not sure how these sublingual and intranasal vaccines compare in strength to injected vaccines. Sublingual and intranasal vaccines stimulate the mucosal immune system (IgA antibodies), whereas injected vaccines stimulate the systemic immune system (IgG antibodies), so injected vaccines have a wider scope.



I went into near remission with the Russian Medgamal Staphylococcus toxoid vaccine (see my post here). This particular vaccine does not target Staphylococcus bacteria, but stimulates the immune system to target the alpha toxin made by Staphylococcus. Unfortunately after 3 weeks, this vaccine stopped working for me, even though I continued to take it.

 

[godlovesatrier]

So I took some more bacillus today because I'm really off and I just feel a bit ill but it's very mild almost like it's bacterial or microbial.

Anyway took some bacillus and felt a lot calmer but also much more brainfogged post. Still waiting for my new 16s results. But I just wanted to say that for about a week after the bacillus my sleep was fantastic even if my brainfog was terrible.

Bacillus subtilis as it turns out creates a unique antibiotic that does kill staph potently but also effects three other bacterial strains. Doesn't do much for the rest though doesn't even seem to touch them. Even so might explain the brainfog maybe. It does immune modulate as my wrists hurt something fierce after I take this stuff.

So I'm hoping it will improve my sleep. I won't be taking more tomorrow but going to see if I can take some more and tolerate it.

 

[godlovesatrier]

Still persevering with this one.

I've taken it probably once a week since I last commented. I'm generally taking it when I'm unable to sleep as it usually makes me sleep like a dead person within just one dose. This isn't instantaneous but it's fairly quick within a few hours.

I've also found two other strains of bacillus. One that strengthens intestinal barrier function (couagulans). Probably great for us who have that issue and one that also improves diherrea (claussii).

It seems these three including hips have been used together in Italy for decades to treat hospital diherrea.

As for the bacillus subtilis it creates not four but fourteen antimicrobial compounds so really excellent for controlling gut pathogenic levels. It also helps lactobacillus and bifidobacter to grow. Which are chronically low in ME.

Lastly I still get worsened fatigue the next day after bacillus subtilis. I'm intrigued to see if this goes away eventually or remains.

 

[Hip]

I've also found two other strains of bacillus. One that strengthens intestinal barrier function (couagulans). Probably great for us who have that issue and one that also improves diherrea (claussii).

Interesting about the Bacillus clausii probiotic treating diarrhoea. That might be useful for those who like me have IBS-D. There do not seem to be many Bacillus clausii probiotics about though, I found one called Enterogermina (a little expensive), another called Youth & Earth (currently out of stock), and one called Youtheory.

Bacillus subtilis though already improved my IBS-D a bit.

 

[godlovesatrier]

Hey Hip,

I did some research this looked like the best one: https://bettervits.co.uk/products/probiotic-complex

Product quality shouldn't be a major issue due to them surviving in a vacuum and even surviving very high temperatures. But the species used I would wager is vitally important.

This brand seems to have specific species so that may ultimately confer proper benefit.

I may try it but I'm not sure yet. It still seems to crash me.

 

[sometexan84]

I used these Bacillus Subtilis (DE111) chewable gummies for this back in 2021. Organic, highly-rated, they taste pretty ok! And in stock

https://www.amazon.com/Probiotics-Digestive-Bacillus-Subtilis-Strawberry/dp/B0883GCN6S

 

[perchance dreamer]

@Hip, the most helpful probiotic I've found for the lower digestive tract is Lane Innovative's Flora3. I get it from Amazon. Here are the ingredients:

lora3 Blend: 584mg saccharomyces boulardii: 6.4 billion cfu** Bacillus coagulans: 500 million cfu** FOS (fructooligosaccharides) Fulvic Acid Calcium (as amino acid chelate): 3mg Magnesium (as amino acid chelate): 3mg Manganese (as amino acid chelate): 3mg Other ingredients: Maltodextrin, vegetable magnesium stearate, hydroxypropyl-methylcellulose (vegetarian capsule) ** at manufacture date

 

[godlovesatrier]

This is the one I'll be buying next: https://youthandearth.com/products/spore-probiotic?variant=41235209650339

It seems to confer anti diherreral and anti leaky gut properties whilst producing 14 antimicrobial compounds. Some of which are antibiotic. This is a trifector of 3 distinct bacillus species each offering their own unique benefits as backed up by scientific papers for each species. So should be a lot more accurate and reliable than the non strain specific probiotic products which could just be a con really. No way to know if it doesn't tell you what strain is used.

Still whilst crashing this week on holiday Ive not seen any real sign of let up on the gastrointestinal distress front but I've only taken three doses of subtilis. However the last dose yesterday did give me fatigue and very bad joint aches (from a cold virus I've got) which I assume is immune activation. Can't decide if it was for the best or not!

 

[godlovesatrier]

Antiviral properties: https://www.mdpi.com/1999-4915/13/1/28

On a whim I was researching its ability to hit non cyclonic entereoviruses. Very slowly over many months if not years. But this is all I've found so far.

 

[godlovesatrier]

Took the youth and earth one and felt pretty bad but woke up the next day and continuing to feel rough as a dog. Hoping it resolves over the weekend. Would be tempted to call it a bonafide herd but how to tell.

Still with the other brand I gradually got to a place where it didn't make me feel like death afterward and the manufacturers do recommend titration for healthy people. So maybe it's simply no different for pwme

I'll have to monitor and see if I recover as quickly as @BrightCandle did. If so I can then see about taking it at the weekends to try and grow used to its effects. Or it's benefits.

 

[godlovesatrier]

https://www.frontiersin.org/article...89/full?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

@Hip study from 2022 with case study examples. I think you'll find this interesting.

Saying that I've taken the new probiotic and have had an awful reaction. Disorientation lasting currently three days. Fatigue in arms and legs. Slowed cognitive process. Aches and pains in joints. I'd assume it was a herx but it's been going on quite a long time. I haven't felt this bad in a long time so I don't know what's happened really. Quite the opposite reaction to the product you posted which didn't have nearly this level of potency.

 

[themjay]

@godlovesatrier unfortunately you appear to be experiencing a similar situation to the warning I posted earlier and informed Ken about 7 years ago when I took the spore-forming formula.

It was a nightmare and put me in bed for a fortnight with the symptoms you are describing.

I would also add that I had a terrible reaction to the sybioflor or whatever it's called and another of Ken's recommended probiotics - can't remember the name but it had lots of obscure species and was supposedly university developed.

I started getting huge blood blisters in my mouth 2 days after taking it. They are powerful things and we really are treating ourselves as lab-rats with all the accompanying risk....

 

[godlovesatrier]

It's funny tho I didn't experience anything like this bad a response to the smart nutrition brand. But the youth and earth one has done some damage. I think the disorientation is going to take awhile to calm down. Same with the fatigue.

Can't figure out if it's antiviral action or simply bad bacteria in my blood and gut that my body is basically trying to kill but it keeps getting repopulated when it spawns. Everytime I eat I feel so much worse.

 

[godlovesatrier]

As for the symbioflor2 yes I see that people reacted badly to that too. I think even Ken might see some of the drawbacks of microbiome adjustment. At any rate I did very well on prebiotics but I started that before I took his recommendations. Vitamin A made me SO much worse last week.

I do think there should be a warning on the original post in this thread that people should be aware of severe and lasting worsening of function. I've lost 10% in just a few hours more like 15% actually as I am currently typing this in bed.

 

[BrightCandle]

I just don't seem to be all that impacted by microbiome adjustment. I have had numerous probiotics be a problem and I either stop them or use a low dose for a while and then up to normal dosage. I have done that with probtiocs pills, kefir, kombucha and kimchi. If its not tolerable do less of it or try something else, no point suffering through it, find a way to make it tolerable.

 

[godlovesatrier]

I've only taken one dose. I stopped it as soon as I started. Doesn't make any difference. The side effects this time are ten times worse.

I took bacillus subtilis hu58 the brand hip posted doesn't say what strain is in the bottle. But the response to that was far less severe than this.

 

[godlovesatrier]

Just a little update to say that it's taken me ten days to get to a housebound baseline. Which for me involves no abdominal pain after eating, no joint inflamation and very minimal viral immune symptoms (swollen lymph nodes, sore throat, etc), also no or minimal brainfog. My immune strength appears (I think) to have dropped hugely because I suddenly came down with a virus much harder than my gf did whereas prior to this we had almost been on a level, which was a good predictor of health for me. Whereas now it's not the case and it's a horrible virus (no positive covid test yet).

But I am still very much housebound, I'll have to see how I am once the virus is gone of course. I am hoping that after it's over I'll get back some of the energy and strength I had. I walked to the shops on thurs (4 minutes both ways) and felt quite unwell after that. I've gone from 78% to 60% in terms of function. However I've recovered from that before, it's just taking forever.

I think taking andrographis helped a lot, as I found out andrographis kills bacillus species, much to my surprise. And I did feel better after taking it too. Took it for two days initially, then a break, now back on it as the virus is stubbornly making me feel like crap. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21468917/

14-Acetylandrographolide showed the highest potency against Bacillus subtilis;

So just warning to others. I was ok-ish on the product hip posted but the supposedly superior Youth and Earth product is I think a nono for people: https://youthandearth.com/products/spore-probiotic?variant=41235209650339