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Bacillus subtilis probiotic may eliminate Staphylococcus from the gut and the nasopharynx

godlovesatrier

Senior Member
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2,500
Location
United Kingdom
My 16s shows I have about 10th percentile compared to healthy microbiome samples from healthy patients. So I thought that might be interesting. It registers at about 20 out of 150 so I have some bacillus subtilis, but not loads.

Not sure if this is a persister bacteria but I guess if it's spore forming it probably is?

I'll be getting a new 16s in a week so be interesting to see if the bacillus has gone up (by a lot as a small amount probably doesn't mean anything).
 

Rufous McKinney

Senior Member
Messages
13,182
my husband is who may carry around staph: he had a reactivation following his COVID vaccination. He thought it was gone. I'll tell him about this.
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,790
I took the first dose yesterday and by evening my sinuses were draining. Second dose today—this is very hopeful! Looking back at stool tests, I do have a history of Staphylococcus.

Are you taking the Bacillus subtilis as an oral probiotic, or experimenting with it as a nasal spray, Sushi?

It's interesting the study found that even when just taken as an oral probiotic, Bacillus subtilis seems to fight Staphylococcus in the nose as well as in the gut:

From the study:
Bacillus-containing probiotics may be used for simple and safe S. aureus decolonization strategies. In that regard, it is particularly noteworthy that our human data indicate that probiotic Bacillus can comprehensively eradicate intestinal as well as nasal S. aureus colonization.
 
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hapl808

Senior Member
Messages
2,003
Are you taking the Bacillus subtilis as an oral probiotic, or experimenting with it as a nasal spray, Sushi?

It's interesting the study found that even when just taken as an oral probiotic, Bacillus subtilis seems to fight Staphylococcus in the nose as well as in the gut:

I ordered the SuperSmart bacillus subtilis. I was reviewing my notes and realized one of my few periods in the last couple years where my PEM threshold improved was when I was taking specifically the SuperSmart Reuteri in higher dosages. Other probiotics didn't have any of the same effect. Could be coincidental correlation, but I ordered that one again as well to experiment.
 

Sushi

Moderation Resource Albuquerque
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Albuquerque
Are you taking the Bacillus subtilis as an oral probiotic, or experimenting with it as a nasal spray, Sushi?
I’ve only tried it orally so far. How is it going with the nasal spray? And how much saline solution do you use for the contents of one capsule?
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,790
I’ve only tried it orally so far. How is it going with the nasal spray? And how much saline solution do you use for the contents of one capsule?

I have a nasal spray bottle with a capacity of 50 ml. So I filled it with 50 ml of distilled water, added 450 mg of sure sea salt (without any additives) to make it into physiological saline (which unlike pure water is not irritating to the nose).

Then I added one capsule of the Bacillus subtilis (containing 3 billion CFU) to the water. After stirring to dissolve the bacteria, I passed the liquid through a coffee filter to remove any lumps which might clog the spray nozzle.

I then sprayed 5 sprays into each nostril daily, doing this 4 days in a row. Normally each spray from a spray bottle is 0.1 ml.

I was also taking Bacillus subtilis as an oral probiotic at the same time.
 

splusholia

Senior Member
Messages
239
I’ve just ordered some of the same brand. I’ll give it a go – I have made some good progress (from very severe to moderate), but when my sinuses are bad I tend to drop back from moderate to severe. My sinus infections pre-date M.E.
 

godlovesatrier

Senior Member
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2,500
Location
United Kingdom
Since my first dose been feeling depressed and a bit upset since I started this. Unsure if it's related but I do think it'd worse after I take it. I also feel sleepy and very tired like I need to sleep.

I'm sending my 16s off today so be interesting to see if the probiotic had any effect in just three days.
 

Sushi

Moderation Resource Albuquerque
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19,934
Location
Albuquerque
I then sprayed 5 sprays into each nostril daily, doing this 4 days in a row. Normally each spray from a spray bottle is 0.1 ml.

I was also taking Bacillus subtilis as an oral probiotic at the same time.
Thanks. How is it going—are you noticing any changes? I am continuing to have significant sinus drainage from the oral dose of one capsule a day.
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,790
Thanks. How is it going—are you noticing any changes? I am continuing to have significant sinus drainage from the oral dose of one capsule a day.

That's interesting. Sounds like something is happening in your sinuses.

I have not noticed any changes to my nasal or sinus cavities since starting Bacillus subtilis oral probiotic, and my homemade Bacillus subtilis nasal spray.

But I don't have much wrong with my nose or sinuses, just a very mild constant feeling of congestion and inflammation that I've always had in my nose since getting ME/CFS.


But my IBS-D has improved with Bacillus subtilis.
 
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Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,790
Since my first dose been feeling depressed and a bit upset since I started this. Unsure if it's related but I do think it'd worse after I take it. I also feel sleepy and very tired like I need to sleep.

I'm sending my 16s off today so be interesting to see if the probiotic had any effect in just three days.

If you have Staphylococcus in your gut, there may be a battle going on, where the Bacillus is trying to boot out the Staphylococcus.
 

godlovesatrier

Senior Member
Messages
2,500
Location
United Kingdom
Hello,

So a little update from me. I found out tonight that bacillus subtillis is an ifn-gamma increaser, it also releases antimicrobial compounds into the gut as well. More info here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/ar...ates systemic immune,subtilis supplementation

It's taken me two days to figure out what's going on but Ken Laarsons website/blog also lists other patients with the same symptoms as me:
  • Immune over stimulation
  • Depression, feeling upset, slightly hyper active at times
  • No bowel or gut symptkms BUT lots of noises from the gut and lots of bubbling going on. Yet no diherrea and no increase in flatulence.
  • Being woken up several times in the night, dreams are a lot more disturbed.
  • Harder to get to sleep
  • Sleepy after 11am (one hour after taking it) and this sleepiness lasts all day. Feels a bit like being hypoglycemic to some extent.
  • Very tired by 3 and 4pm.
  • Mild brainfog + as I said above demotivation.
I think I'm mainly experiencing the immune stimulation which is stronger than a lot of other things. Tonight I experienced pretty severe tiredness, flu like symptoms and aches and pains (mild). Haven't had any bad fatigue manifest tho so certainly feels different to a-typical ME. The first few days I took it I felt really really good...so I hope that feeling returns :/

So yes I am going to persevere @Hip