AXA1125 had a successful trial in Long Covid patients improving fatigue. I’m trying it on myself for M.E.

[Woodyrob]

Due to reading about the successful trial. i decide to find out what’s in AXA1125 and today am just starting the same amino acid and NAC profile as is in AXA1125.

The AXA1125 amino acid ratio is… “Each AXA1125 stick pack was composed of leucine 1.00 g, isoleucine 0.50 g, valine 0.50 g, arginine HCl 1.81 g, glutamine 2.00 g, and NAC 0.15g”
(Note the trial used 67.8g dise per day of AXA1125)

So I ordered these amino acids and NAC from iHerb.
Note: Need to be careful what brands you buy due to widespread fraud in the supplement industry, especially where brands are hijacked like on Amazon. I chose a well known brand and also an iHerb independently tested brand.


Luckily 3 of the AAs are in the same ratio as the tub of BCAAs I bought, the other 2 AAs and NAC I bought separately. Tastes utterly horrendous.

Anyway I’ll update you in approximately 14 days from this post, or sooner if I start improving.

Here’s the study if you missed it
‘Trial investigating potential treatment for fatigue relief in people with long COVID reports results | University of Oxford’

https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2023-04-1...ment-fatigue-relief-people-long-covid-reports

 

[BrightCandle]

We actually had a thread about this from before when it was trialing for ME/CFS (which failed) where I pointed at Mutant BCAA's as having the same Amino Acids but a different mix. I take in amino acids and I think they do help a little but despite the bold claims of AXA I highly doubt this does anything than take the edge off as it does for me.

The thread on the trial - https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...ackle-fatigue-in-long-covid-and-me-cfs.86061/

 

[katabasis]

I'm willing to bet that it's NAC doing most of the heavy lifting. There was actually a study on a combination of guanfacine and NAC for long covid brain fog that seemed promising: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9691274/

I take this combination and it does seem to have helped to a degree, though I've only been on it for a month or two. I've noticed that I have been able to read for longer periods of time (not very long -- 20 or 30 minutes instead of like 10 -- but still). I'm sure guanfacine is having more of an effect, but NAC is probably contributing something. The very high bioavailability of this acetylated cysteine probably makes it more likely to have some benefit than just regular old amino acids, anyway.

 

[Woodyrob]

I'm willing to bet that it's NAC doing most of the heavy lifting. There was actually a study on a combination of guanfacine and NAC for long covid brain fog that seemed promising: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9691274/

I take this combination and it does seem to have helped to a degree, though I've only been on it for a month or two. I've noticed that I have been able to read for longer periods of time (not very long -- 20 or 30 minutes instead of like 10 -- but still). I'm sure guanfacine is having more of an effect, but NAC is probably contributing something. The very high bioavailability of this acetylated cysteine probably makes it more likely to have some benefit than just regular old amino acids, anyway.

It will be interesting as I’ve been taking NAC prior with no improvement, so if i have an improvement at least I know it won’t be NAC no it’s own. But you could be right. as me not improving on NAC doesn’t mean others won’t. I think NAC is a good thing for all ME/CFS people to at least give it a try

 

[Woodyrob]

We actually had a thread about this from before when it was trialing for ME/CFS (which failed) where I pointed at Mutant BCAA's as having the same Amino Acids but a different mix. I take in amino acids and I think they do help a little but despite the bold claims of AXA I highly doubt this does anything than take the edge off as it does for me.

The thread on the trial - https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...ackle-fatigue-in-long-covid-and-me-cfs.86061/

Thanks for the link, I just read all the comments, unfortunately no one had tried the ammo acid profile in the same ratio or same amino acids or the large dose. Do you remember the name of the ME/CFS trial that failed or have a link to it? Cheers

 

[Consul]

Its not uncommon for pwme to get a small boost from an amino acid. I did a poll on this. Some get it from nac, some from bcaa etc. I think i get it from arginine. So since there are like 5 aminos in that thing chances are that some patients will get a small boost but nothing more. So i dont think there is anything special here.

 

[Woodyrob]

Its not uncommon for pwme to get a small boost from an amino acid. I did a poll on this. Some get it from nac, some from bcaa etc. I think i get it from arginine. So since there are like 5 aminos in that thing chances are that some patients will get a small boost but nothing more. So i dont think there is anything special here.

Yes I thought the same, and still think it’s unlikely to work, however I am hoping the extraordinary high dose might be the why they had success in the Long Covid trial.

I measured it out and consuming it I was surprised how much I had to ingest. 67grams is a lot for a supplement.

If it was the standard dosage I wouldn’t have bothered either. If it was in a standard protein powder (i.e. the full amino acid profile of whey or pea protein powder ) it would be over 200g a day. On top of the standard diet.

I’ve been trying to avoid high amounts of standard protein due to the increased amount of tryptophan which is a culprit in the ‘Metabolic Trap Hypothesis’.

I’m wondering if the high dose of these 5 selected amino acids could be displacing tryptophan? (That’s just a hunch)

As for PEM yes that’s the thing I don’t have much hope in regaining extra energy, especially if it’s the immune system that attacks us for cellular exertion. as no point building up a reserve of energy in cells only to be punished for using it.

However that said I’m hoping AXA1125 may stabilise the likes of T-cell, NK cells, Neutrophils and other immune cell behaviour by giving them sufficient energy to function normally. Maybe the immune system turns off the Cell Danger Response and PEM goes away? (A big maybe I know)

I do wonder why they had such good success in long Covid patients, considering that over 50% of LC patients have PEM. Especially the longer term LC patients as this MedScape article found

Post-COVID Fatigue, Exercise Intolerance Signal ME/CFS MedScape
https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/980536
All that said, I don’t hold much hope in AXA1125. But I’m barely able to walk 20 metres anymore, so worth trying for 2 weeks to see if there’s even a tiny lift.

Must try and hope

 

[BrightCandle]

‘Metabolic Trap Hypothesis’.

Important to note this hypothesis is now dead, they don't believe this is the problem in ME/CFS.

 

[Woodyrob]

Ah no, I hadn’t heard that, it was only a couple months ago Professor Ron Davis was still very enthusiastic about it. He had 39 FDA approved potential drugs yet to test on it.

How did you find out the Metabolic Trap is dead, as I’d e interested in reading about that

 

[BrightCandle]

Ah no, I hadn’t heard that, it was only a couple months ago Professor Ron Davis was still very enthusiastic about it. He had 39 FDA approved potential drugs yet to test on it.

How did you find out the Metabolic Trap is dead, as I’d e interested in reading about that

Unfortunately he didn't officially announce it, they just moved on to different research. They haven't yet said how it failed but we found out with the Rob Phair work as they have moved onto sickness behaviour via Jak receptors in the cells.

 

[Wishful]

I do wonder why they had such good success in long Covid patients,

There are a lot of studies that show great success ... in a flawed trial. Don't get too excited about single studies; wait until it's been verified in at least one other trial. There's just too much motivation for showing 'great success', and too little punishment for publishing flawed trials.

I’m wondering if the high dose of these 5 selected amino acids could be displacing tryptophan?

I expect that even one of the BCAAs would reduce TRP transport, and at more reasonable dosages. Higher doses and additional AAs probably wouldn't improve that.

 

[Woodyrob]

Important to note this hypothesis is now dead, they don't believe this is the problem in ME/CFS.

I wrote to the OMF and they replied “Rob Phair is looking at the Itaconate shunt and other theories and traps as well.”

So not “instead of” but “and” meaning ‘as well as’

which is good to know

 

[Husband of]

I wrote to the OMF and they replied “Rob Phair is looking at the Itaconate shunt and other theories and traps as well.”

So not “instead of” but “and” meaning ‘as well as’

which is good to know

Yep was about to say this. They have moved into looking at other theories as well (particularly Itaconate shunt), not instead. Rob phair just talks about them as two different unproven hypotheses.

 

[Celestron]

In the study the participants take the dose of AXA1125 twice a day.

Also, the directions for taking many mitochondrial enhancers is often twice or three times a day.

Is this to avoid side effects or is it because the supplement doesn't stay long in your system and needs to be topped up over the day?

I often have to take supplements first thing in the morning to avoid insomnia so twice/three times a day doesn't always work well for me.