Anyone tried E.Coli/Escherichia Probiotic?

[canyouhearmeaya]

Following on from my previous topics, I have been having a lot of issues over the last few years with brain fog, feeling disorientated/spaced out, anhedonia, mood issues, itchy skin and urticarcia, and just general feelings of malaise which are having a big impact on my quality of life.

I suspect this is all somehow gut/GI related, and that broad spectrumprobiotics have made this situation worse.

GI Map results here:
https://ibb.co/K9t2CRC

Also tested for SIBO which was either negative or false negative. Flat for the first part of test, but very low amounts of hydrogen gases once reaching the large intestine, so could of been false negative indicating H2S SIBO. Ran a course of Rifaximin, no negative or benefit as far as I could tell. Although low sulfur diet doesn't seem to provide benefit.

I have naively taken MANY courses over the last 3 years of broad spectrum probiotics, containing a mix of typical Bifido and Lacto strains, I suspect these have made the problem worse. It ways it seems like its a histamine intolerance issue.

Lately I have tried JUST using Bifido strains (Seeking Health's Probiota Bifido) along with GOS Prebiotic - this certainly doesn't seem to have caused any ill effect.. I think it has actually helped a bit, but certainly not resolved. So it seems Bifido strains aren't the problem.

I thought I'd then try adding in a 'histamine safe' Lacto strain and see what happened, so I tried Lactobacillius Rhamnosus GG (which seems to be conisdered histamine safe and mast cell stabilizing for most.) By the 3rd day, i'm sure its made me feel worse again, so I have stopped it.

Ofc this isn't a sound scientific experiment I can't my judgement is correct, but it seems to me that:
+ Bifido strains are helpful/neutral for me
- Lacto strains are harmful

Although if it's a histamine issue, I'm not sure why Rhamnosus would make me worse?

Anyway - my GI Map clearly shows I have ample levels of Lactobacillus, lower end (but in range) levels of Bifido but below range/insufficient levels of Escherichia. Someone in another thread reccomended 'Symbioflor 2' which appears to be human like strains of Escherichia/E.Coli. I am now thinking that I should try this, and see if this can help balance my microbiome.

But I would like to know if anyone has any experience they can share with this probiotic, and if they can relate it to my own experiences at all?

The one period in the last 3 years where I had a total remission of these symptoms, was after a very random/unexpected and out of the normal bout of very suddent and urgent watery diarrhea. It occured one day randomly (I think I may have induced electrolyte imbalances with what I was doing diet wise at the time), but regardless after this ALL of the symptoms disppeared and I felt amazing. But lo and behold it all returned (and I also stupidly took more broad spectrum probiotics after this too.) But this experienced seemed to suggest to me that A) it's gut related B) removing/lowering something in my gut helped.

As you can see from my GI Map, there doesn't appear to be any infections or even any major dysbiosis from what I can tell? It makes me wonder if it really is just an imbalance of normal flora i.e. too much lacto strains relative to the others, resulting in what ever this is, excess histamine etc? And that after the diarrhea, those numbers were temporarily lowered, allowing a better balance, but ultimately they returned?

I know that's a totally not scientific speculative idea, so i'd be interested to hear everyones ideas.

The real worsening of these symptoms never followed any kind of sickness as far as I can recall. But do very closely following the use of broad spectrum probiotics, which is also what makes me think this is more to do with an imbalance of normal flora.

So ofc I am very intrigued to try the E.Coli, but also scared, as I'm naturally very cautious about probiotics now. The fact I can seemingly tolerate high doses of Bifido (I have been using 5-6 capsules per day of Probiota Bifido) without ill effect is at least somewhat re-assuring and suggests its not just an issue with every kind of probiotic..

I suppose what I wonder is.. IF this is an imbalance of normal flora, and specifically I lack E.Coli, could ADDING E.Coli in some way help regulate the levels of other strains? Does anyone know if E.Coli plays a role like that? And could the lack of it allow excess Lacto strains for example to proliferate and this cause an imbalance?

Sorry for the wall of text!! Hope you're all doing well and coping okay with the current times. Thanks for reading. I look forward to input.

 

[Learner1]

I took Symbioflor2 without a problem. Im in the US, ordered it from Germany. Can't say it did much, one way or another, but who knows??

I've had a similar saga. After quitting probiotics, fed up with spending in them and still having gut problems, I then ended up with oxalates, so have had to deal with that - the probiotics were keeping it in check, so quitting was a huge tactical error.

I've also gotten frustrated with stool tests, done several brands ...

However, currently I'm doing Viome tests and following their suggestions for foods to eat and gut supplements - I have to say it's actually working well. You can order the test without a doctor and it's been on sale recently.

 

[canyouhearmeaya]

I took Symbioflor2 without a problem. Im in the US, ordered it from Germany. Can't say it did much, one way or another, but who knows??

I've had a similar saga. After quitting probiotics, fed up with spending in them and still having gut problems, I then ended up with oxalates, so have had to deal with that - the probiotics were keeping it in check, so quitting was a huge tactical error.

I've also gotten frustrated with stool tests, done several brands ...

However, currently I'm doing Viome tests and following their suggestions for foods to eat and gut supplements - I have to say it's actually working well. You can order the test without a doctor and it's been on sale recently.

Had you ever had a negative experiene with probiotics? That's one of my biggest apprehensions. Because I seem to possibly be reacting badly to lactobacillus strains, I don't want to have a negative reaction to the symbioflor.

It seems very hard to find much at all about E.Coli. Experiences etc. Hard to know if it's even that important, doesn't seem to be regarded as that important given the lack of information about it relative to other kinds i.e. bifido etc.

 

[Learner1]

Yes, I've reacted very badly to l. rhamnosus which is supposed to be great stuff. I've used GI Map, GI Effects, and uBiome before and found them somewhat useful. But your point about bacteria affecting others is a good one. They do.

I found my issues with getting lactobacillus strains to grow was due to oxalates, so changing my diet and supplementing for oxalates helped a lot.

Viome flagged the oxalates and told me what my bacteria could and couldn't do, metabolic orocess-wise. They gave me a list of superfoods and foods to avoid. And they've told me what probiotic strains I need, like l. plantarum which apparently is hostile to find troublemakers, and suggested gut supplements - first the equivalent of Integrative Therapeutics Similase and recently a German herbal called Iberogast. ((I couldn't usesome of their exact brand recommendations due to milk allergy, but was able to find substituted that were dairy free.

I'm finding it's an iterative process, where one makes changes for awhile, retests and makes more changes, but it makes sense to me that this is so as the microbiome changes in relation to what we do, and expecting one set of changes to create perfection is unrealistic.

On this last round, I had developed a gas and bloating problem which I think was due to too many clostridia. The Iberogast and l. plantarum seems to have fixed it within 2 weeks.

I first read about doing this sort of approach on Ken Lassessen's cfsremission.com where he claims fixing ones gut can cure one's ME/CFS. I find this claim too good to be true, as my microbiome was in great shape when I was at my sickest and it became a mess after lengthy antibiotics where my ME/CFS is at its best, and apparently Jen has been treated for infections and a whole lot of other things by a competent naturopath.

His recommendations for changing my microbiome told me to go eat Roundup and high maize cornstarch when I'm severely allergic to corn, so I found them dangerous. But I understood the general concept and have found Viome's suggestions helpful and they make sense based in what I eat and what I already know about my gut. They even flagged tomato, cucumbers and pepper viruses, something I'd not seen on any other test, and told me to avoid those foods for awhile.

I find it more useful than my just a praying high quality, high potency probiotics, with a prebiotic, which wasn't getting me very far very fast. This is more specific.