Antihistaminic flavonoids: Quercetin, Rutin... especially Luteolin

[Beyond]

I want to try these. Any experience with them?

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...sCustomisedMessage=&userIsAuthenticated=false

Luteolin is the strongest (of those three mentioned at least) but the only way to get it properly would be with an autism product called Lutimax which of course is "somewhat" expensive. Pros would be that it has rutin in it which gets converted to quercetin and overall luteolin and rutin decrease gut and brain inflammation.

My mast cell problems arise mostly as: "burning red feet syndrome" (a strange awful thing I get anytime I go out for some hours with closed shoes, this is 90% of shoes lol), dermatographism and cholinergic urticaria. I guess I have way more issues related to this but those are the really prominent ones.

It is very very insane that I have been to dozens of doctors and no one have noticed that I show obvious symptoms of inflammation, autoimmunity and histamine/mast cell problems except me. Why I have to be my own doctor?? I have even started studying to do a nutritionist degree and optimally Medicine if finances and especially my f*cking illness let me. I was more of Arts you know? But I have no choice but to study if I want to heal myself and others.

 

[Thinktank]

Yes, i've tried a complex of Luteolin, quercetin and rutin called Neuroprotek developed by Dr. Theoharides, an expert on mast cell disorders. Don't know if you are familiar with his work but more info about Dr. Theoharides can be found here:
http://www.mastcellmaster.com/
I bought Neuroprotek to hopefully relieve some of the cognitive problems i was enduring due to histamine intolerance / improper mast cell degranulation. (Thank you GAPS diet for overloading my system with histamine!)
Unfortunately at the time i was having an IBD flare which made it worse so had to quit the product just after a few days, therefore can't say if it works or not. Especially rutin (or was it luteolin?) seems to be hard on the intestines so be careful as you already have intestinal problems. Some say it helps to freeze the product so it won't dissolve in the stomach.

I believe quercetin and luteolin are especially helpful in inflammation and histamine problems, at least for me quercetin helps to alleviate seasonal allergies.

I feel for you, i've been through the medical circus as well for my mast cell problems / histamine intolerance. I had to go through dozens of doctors to find one that was willing to check me for mastocytosis, all were completely illiterate on the subject. I freaking had to print studies and educate them which tests to run and how to do it, some didn't listen at all due to loss of face.. a patient educating a doctor, the shame lol.

If you believe you have some kind of mast cell disorder or problems with histamine then follow your instincts, keep researching and try to find a specialist that's actually literate on the subject.

In Spain there's a specialist called Dr. Escribano, i can give you his email address if you like. He works at Universidad de Salamanca.

 

[Beyond]

In Spain there's a specialist called Dr. Escribano, i can give you his email address if you like. He works at Universidad de Salamanca.

That would be pretty cool actually! I think it is safe to assume I have mast cell problems. Lol I have never ever seen a doc of the multiple I have gone to even mentioning the term "mast cells" which would be "mastocitos". Even for me it has taken years to realise I have this kind of problem. It is just too rare.

But on the "sunny" side my obvious allergic symptoms are proof that I am ill and something from where start researching with the help of a professional hopefully.

I would say is luteolin the one that potentially worsens IBD: http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0000596#pone-0000596-g009
I have only seen positive studies on rutin and gut inflammation.

 

[camas]

It is hard to understand how so many docs miss such obvious symptoms. They did in me, too, even though I'm covered in spots and often flushed right in front of them!

I sympathize with your burning feet, I sometimes get it in my hands and it's miserable. I've discovered that Benadryl cream, which most people use for itching, will help calm it down.

Quercetone by Thorne is a good one if you can tolerate it. It's really potent and I felt great on it for about a week, but it built up on my system and left me feeling really wired. Apparently quercetin is an adenosine antagonist like caffeine, so can have that effect on some people.

I couldn't tolerate Neuroprotek either, although a lot of people swear by it. However, I've had some good results with plain old feverfew which has some mast cell stabilizing properties and is really inexpensive.

The low histamine chef is a good source for natural remedies for treating mast cell issues. Her site is even recommended by Dr. Theoharides because, as a journalist, she puts a lot of research into what she publishes.

I think I've probably had the best result from just avoiding high histamine foods. It's just not the most exciting of diets, but has helped my burning/flushing/muscle weakness/PEM, etc. (I also take an H1/H2/Benzo cocktail recommended by Dr. Afrin.)

 

[Beyond]

I will email that doc and see what he thinks of my condition, Thinktank, and especially if he can help.

I think I will try Quercenase camas, I hope it does not wire me up as well!

It seems Hesperidin is good too. So many "flavonins" to try lol

 

[ahmo]

I'm having great results w/ quercetin, rutin, royal jelly. Dr. Theoharides video talks re Masto and another on 'brain allergy'and Autism are excellent. I'm not using luteolin, I'm doing fine w/o the extra expense, but do eat 1 Tb olive oil twice a day, so get some small measure of the olive flavanoids. Using these things, and having the awareness of my problem, means that I have my histamine reactions under control for the first time in a decade of ongoing problems. Also, lowhistaminechef has a list of probiotics that are low histamine. If you want more on that, I've made some iherb choices that work and can post them. cheers, ahmo

 

[Beyond]

Good news ahmo. Rojal Jelly did not seem to help my allergy symptoms. I had one horrible flare of cholinergic urticaria while on it (not related to royal jelly but to chopping wood with my father). It did help mood, energy and libido though. A fine supp IMO.

 

[sregan]

I'm having great results w/ quercetin, rutin, royal jelly. Dr. Theoharides video talks re Masto and another on 'brain allergy'and Autism are excellent. I'm not using luteolin, I'm doing fine w/o the extra expense, but do eat 1 Tb olive oil twice a day, so get some small measure of the olive flavanoids. Using these things, and having the awareness of my problem, means that I have my histamine reactions under control for the first time in a decade of ongoing problems. Also, lowhistaminechef has a list of probiotics that are low histamine. If you want more on that, I've made some iherb choices that work and can post them. cheers, ahmo

Ahmo, when do you take these sups? Just prior to food? If not then AM or PM or what?

 

[ahmo]

@sregan, When I'm in detox mode (coffee enemas), I take them following my coffee enemas, away from food. When I'm not detoxxing, I've been taking them w/ my AM meal. Seems to work fine either way And, as you know from another thread, I've now reversed my sentiment from the quoted post, and will be ordering Neuroprotek today.

 

[sregan]

@sregan, When I'm in detox mode (coffee enemas), I take them following my coffee enemas, away from food. When I'm not detoxxing, I've been taking them w/ my AM meal. Seems to work fine either way And, as you know from another thread, I've now reversed my sentiment from the quoted post, and will be ordering Neuroprotek today.

I got my Swanson product today (luteolin and rutin). Took one about an hour ago. Have this nice peaceful easy feeling right now and enjoying that (Eagles anyone?)

Update: had a hard time getting to sleep last night. Felt calm, body tired but still needed melatonin.

Decided to take this stuff in the AM and have felt a little edgy (stimulated) but mood has been slightly better than normal. enough to be noticable.

 

[sregan]

@sregan, When I'm in detox mode (coffee enemas), I take them following my coffee enemas, away from food. When I'm not detoxxing, I've been taking them w/ my AM meal. Seems to work fine either way And, as you know from another thread, I've now reversed my sentiment from the quoted post, and will be ordering Neuroprotek today.

You only take them with your morning food? Would it be better to take them with each meal?

 

[ahmo]

My histamines are not primarily from food. I eat "no" histaminic foods, freeze my meat in small chunks that I unfreeze before the next meal. I'd initially been using rutin and royal jelly AM/PM, with quercetin, which is high sulfur/thiol, AM only. But my need has decreased as my detoxxing continues. From one series to the next, I went from self-testing for 2-3/day to once only, directly following the enemas. I only eat small meals, AM, PM, not midday. Happy to read of your + response to Swanson's luteolin. cheers, ahmo

 

[sregan]

One thing I noticed in taking the Luteolin + Rutin product is that it made me feel almost identical to how Red Wine Resveratrol did. It seems like they may to the same thing as luteolin by inhibiting Mast cell degranulation.


http://www.researchgate.net/publica...on_cytokine_chemokine_and_leukotriene_release

Here's the Red Wine Resveratrol I have:
http://www.iherb.com/Doctor-s-Best-...US&w=red wine resveratrol&rc=319&sr=null&ic=4

 

[Violeta]

Here's a study showing that luteolin is a calcium channel blocker. I can link studies that show that quercetin and myricetin, even cromolyn, are calcium channel blockers, too. I think the antihistamine effect is from them being calcium channel blockers.

I also have a quote from a study that says that without calcium, cells will not degranulate. I'll go get the quote.
"A calcium signal is essential for degranulation, generation of eicosanoids and optimal production of cytokines in mast cells in response to antigen and other stimulants."

I am wondering if mast cells are stabilized by luteolin, quercetin and rutin by blocking calcium entry.

That would mean that magnesium and Vitamin K2 would be a very good mast cell stabilizer

 

[ahmo]

Hi Violeta. This is interesting. I take quite a lot of mg, also K2 2x/day, still needing anti-histamine supps. But I don't really understand the relationship between mast cells and other histamine responses, so these might, indeed, be contributing stability.

I recently read that mangosteen is anti-histamine. It's reasonably inexpensive. I found that once I started this, I no longer self-test + for quercetin. Since quercetin seemed to be my least favoured compared to rutin and royal jelly, I've now replaced it w/ mangosteen.

Mangosteen is touted for it's effect in blood sugar control and energy. I've been fascinated to find that since I started it, my craving/need for ghee + honey following my coffee enemas has dramatically reduced. I felt fine about supplying this fat and sweet, but feel even finer that my need for it seems to have decreased. cheers, ahmo

(http://www.iherb.com/Emerald-Labora...c=0&lc=en-US&w=mangosteen&rc=231&sr=null&ic=9)

 

[Violeta]

Hi Violeta. This is interesting. I take quite a lot of mg, also K2 2x/day, still needing anti-histamine supps. But I don't really understand the relationship between mast cells and other histamine responses, so these might, indeed, be contributing stability.

I recently read that mangosteen is anti-histamine. It's reasonably inexpensive. I found that once I started this, I no longer self-test + for quercetin. Since quercetin seemed to be my least favoured compared to rutin and royal jelly, I've now replaced it w/ mangosteen.

Mangosteen is touted for it's effect in blood sugar control and energy. I've been fascinated to find that since I started it, my craving/need for ghee + honey following my coffee enemas has dramatically reduced. I felt fine about supplying this fat and sweet, but feel even finer that my need for it seems to have decreased. cheers, ahmo

(http://www.iherb.com/Emerald-Labora...c=0&lc=en-US&w=mangosteen&rc=231&sr=null&ic=9)

Hi ahmo, as far as what I was able to find about mangosteen, it blocks the histamine receptors and something else which the info I found so far isn't clear about. So I don't know if it has any action on the mast cells.

Do histamines from foods give you a problem?

I forget, do you take B2? I am fairly sure I've had copper biounavailability for some time and am hoping the B2 will straighten out that, and in turn help with histamine issues.

You seemed to be doing well with finding what works for you.

Violeta

 

[ahmo]

Violeta, I avoid all histamine foods. I'm getting small amounts of B2 in my Swanson's B comp, 25mg/day. I guess one of these days I'll have to study further to get clear on the distinctions betw histamines and mast cells. I'm pretty sure from watching Dr. Theoharides that I've got mast cell issues. I'm awaiting his Neuroprotek to see if that's the final piece to calm my brain, which has already healed so much compared to 2 years ago. I know my MAO predisposes to histamine intolerance. I've just been able to further reduce my Yasko MAO RNA formula, so thankfully improvements continue.

 

[Violeta]

ahmo, I had been avoiding histamine foods, actually because I was sick, I wasn't eating very much anyway, and then ate some tomato sauce with meatballs. The first day I was fine, so I took the leftovers to work for lunch. It was the first time I had a flush in quite a while. I also got what I guess is heartburn; it was very annoying. I am back on low histamine, but still having a hard time believing that I have this problem.

I have the neuroprotek, but only took it a few times so far. It did calm down my brain and help me function. It even gave me more energy, I think because my brain makes me feel like I'm in a straight jacket....wired but too tired to do much. The neuroprotek also helped my gut relax. I quit it while I was sick, but I'm starting back on it today.

I don't think it's the root of the problem, though. I think it has more to do with copper regulation/toxicity/biounavailability. I was reading about metallothionein, and could see that could be more of the root, well, maybe that brought on by heavy metal toxicity.....or the vicious circle of the two, actually.

BTW, metallothionein seems to be tied into the process that involves cysteine, methionine, so maybe it has something to do with methylation issues, I don't yet know.

 

[Violeta]

This is even more interesting:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16133147

 

[ahmo]

@Violeta, That is indeed interesting. It responds to my increased need for honey after my enemas, when lot's of stuff is moving. AND, it speaks to my current AMAZING response to my 1st single dose of Neuroprotek! I was so excited I had difficulty getting to sleep! I could feel it somehow, like 'in the back of my mind". But more dramatically, my body has immediately self-tested to decrease doses of a number of supps, including ubiquinol.

Dr. Theoharides says it will take weeks to show effects. I've always been v sensitive to supps and meds. Within hours self-testing is showing eliminate rutin, hypothalamus, mag threonate, and decreasing thyroid, carnitine, arginine, GABA, AdB12. If I hadn't been making so much progress through self-testing, I would label this premature, placebo, just plain unbelievable. And it IS unbelievable! I'm about to have my second dose of 2 caps. If these results hold, this single supp will pay for itself by shifting my needs for these multiple things. And calm my brain!!!!! OMG! Sorry to be so expressive, it could be a bit of last-night-increased-folate-euphoria, but this is phenomenal! cheers, ahmo