Another Shot Across the Public Bow Against Supplements, From Vits and Herbs to Omega 3 Oil ……

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

I’ve observed, with growing disquiet over the last couple of weeks, several articles about the deadly and deeply serious dangers of …. vitamins.

They’ve once again trotted out the old, incredibly badly done 1984 ‘research’ study on how Vit A causes lung cancer, without mentioning that the study was poorly done, and that the participants were largely swept up from Skid Row, with many health issues already present, and with a background of excessive alcohol and recreational drug use, and poor nutrition.

Details.

Uncomfortable details, which is why they’re never addressed, or even mentioned.

Now they’re at it again ….. and here’s a quote from the article that may explain the reason why:

“ … the supplement trend is growing faster than researchers can keep up…”​

And here’s another …

“ …. the number of Americans taking dietary supplements has exploded since
the COVID-19 pandemic's start. In Southern California, Belardo says she often sees
patients with heart problems who "gravitate towards alternate therapies
and herbals and supplements."​

And this one really made me chuckle, after which I spit up part of my lunch ….

“Dr. Martha Gulati, a California-based cardiologist and president-elect of
the American Society for Preventive Cardiology, is among them. Gulati
told Insider she is concerned that many people falsely believe taking
"natural" remedies means the items are safer than pills made in a lab.”​

Because, you know, with iatrogenic deaths in this country, from a variety of sources including a whole lotta bad reactions to prescription drugs, combos of prescription drugs, more prescription drugs to deal with the issues created by the combos of prescription drugs, topping several hundred thousand a year (and believe me, Drs, hospitals, and Pharma twist themselves into all sorts of interesting shapes to change the determination of mortality whenever they can, which I would guess is not an infrequent occurence), it’s evident, obvious, plain as day, and crystal clear that the lab-made chemicals in those prescription drugs are absolutely, totally, completely, did I mention absolutely? Safe. Safer than safe. More safer than milk. Or mothers milk. Or whatever.

Theres no hard evidence presented, just anecdotals from a Dr clearly alarmed that something may be taking income away from them, and up with which they will not put.

Assertions of the damages caused are all prefaced by “ …might have …”, “…. could have ….”, “ …. may have ….”.

The comments were interesting, and raised an issue I hadn’t thought of because I tend to avoid anything that smacks of conspiracy theories, but I lay it out here for your consideration. Please send your comments and any hate mail to:

Box 22793-B,
Frog Trot Lane
Dismal Seepage, Louisianna​

There seems to be a small but growing army of patients who got the Pfizer jab, and who are now experiencing heart issues, some of them deadly serious, since those shots. What better way to shift blame and kill an industry that’s cutting into your income than blaming all that on …. Omega fish oil. Vitamins. Supplements.

But I rattle on. Here’s the article, see what y’all think.

I have to go lose some more of my already modestly-retained lunch ….

A cardiologist says she's seeing a rise in 20-somethings with heart arrhythmias caused by herbal supplements
https://www.yahoo.com/news/cardiologist-says-shes-seeing-rise-172917995.html

 

[Booble]

I appreciate these reminders because the supplement industry is not regulated and the Internet often creates mania around various items. Young people do all kinds of stupid ass things because of things they see some idiot do on Tik-Tok.

The cardiologist in this article mentions bitter orange and ephedra.
"Belardo said her patients come in taking herbs like bitter orange and ephedra, both linked to irregular heartbeats in case studies and clinical research."

The best part of the article:
Stop believing everything you hear on social media, cardiologists say.

Too many dumb young people. In my opinion the "wellness industry" needs to be better regulated.
As that article states, the top health "influencers" are not evidenced based.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

As that article states, the top health "influencers" are not evidenced based.

Neither is that article. It's all hearsay, and "mights" and "maybes" and "mays", all done under color of authority, whereas the influencers are just pretty much hyped up sales personnel

It's crap science, and it's doing the same thing that the influencers it so heatedly denounces are doing: trying to sway the easily influenced with zero data but lots and lots and just LOTS of anecdotal "evidence" and personal opinion from two Drs no one's ever heard of, whose "scientific study" consisted of calling a few other Drs and a couple of ERs and getting more .... wait for it .... anecdotal, totally unsupported "evidence".

To loop taking Omega 3 fish oils into heart problems is particularly .... problematic, since it's routinely prescribed to their patients by cardiologists and family Drs, usually in the extremely expensive BigPharma prescription version, which is no different from the much less expensive options available at any good health food store or from Amazon, if you pick your brand carefully and do a little due diligence.

Omega-3s from fish and fish oil have been recommended by the American Heart Association (AHA) for the past 20 years to reduce the potentiatl of cardiovascular events, like heart attack or stroke, in people who already have cardiovascular disease (CVD). It's also used for the prevention of cardio issues. I cant imagine someone chugging a whole bottle, but if they did, yeah, it might be .... really uncomfortable. On the other hand chug a bottle of statins, and you might be a little .... dead.

Maybe they might start by regulating the masses of dicey kitchen sink nootropics and other supplements, and even ingredients for prescription drugs that OUR govt allows to be imported from irregular, unregistered, and uninspected small labs in China (built behind chicken coops and dim sum parlors?), if they're really anxious to regulate, tho I suppose the FDA and multiple pharmaceutical companies would be horrified at the prospect, which would deeply cut into their profits.

Or perhaps they could regulate the way prescription drugs are prescribed by our own US medical system, no unusually for their own profit, and seemingly ahead of any evident concerns for their patient's best interests, and the deadly poly-pharmacy that's made the US medico-pharmaceutical industry the subject of international marveling when it comes to the subjects of "regulation" and "diligent oversight".


BUT ON A MORE UNIFYING NOTE, I TOTALLY AGREE THAT THE YOUNG CAN BE COMPLETE IDIOTS ABOUT WHO THEY LISTEN TOO AND WHAT THEY PUT IN THEIR BODIES ....
They're often careless about looking after their own interests and health when it comes to flashy hype and promises, it's part of being young and knowing that you're immortal, which is why God made adolescents and twenty-somethings so much more resilient than 30-year-olds-and-up, when the piper generally starts coming around with an oily smile and the current bill, due and payable.

And if they're dim enough to take advice from an unregistered, unlicensed, largely uneducated self-proclaimed "expert" with admittedly perfect make-up and brand new shiny teeth, and who also conveniently happens to be selling the miracle pill, potion, elixir, soft gel, liquid, tablet, capsule, or powder that they're hawking, well, the easily influenced are going to have to learn the same way the rest of us did I guess ....

As an old sage once said,

There are three kinds of people in the world: the ones who learn by reading,
the ones who learn by observation, and the majority,
who just have to pee on the electric fence for themselves — Unknown, but cherished​

EDIT .... To correct quote ....

 

[Booble]

Did we read the same article?

What I read was a short piece with a couple of cardiologists reminding people to be careful with supplements and concerned about young people taking bitter orange and ephedra willy nilly.

Seems wise to me.

 

[xebex]

when doctors tell us its all in our heads though we don't have much choice but to turn to alternative methods. I'd love some medicine that actually worked and didn't cause horrendous side effcts. Do they have that? NO - so i'll stick to my woo.

 

[Wishful]

Omega-3s from fish and fish oil have been recommended by the American Heart Association (AHA) for the past 20 years to reduce the potentiatl of cardiovascular events, like heart attack or stroke, in people who already have cardiovascular disease (CVD).

Yet the evidence supporting those benefits is very weak. Last I checked, omega-3 had some evidence of something like a 5% reduction in one specific type of heart failure ... and didn't mention that mild exercise reduced those risks by 80+%.

Here's an article about 'inoculating' people against misinformation:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/08/220824152220.htm

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Ephedra cycles through yet again.

It's all hearsay, and "mights" and "maybes" and "mays", all done under color of authority, whereas the influencers are just pretty much hyped up sales personnel

most of these trendy news sites don't report very soundly when it comes to the health issues.

example of: where you obtain info really matters. And cross verifying, etc.

Omega-3s from fish and fish oil have been recommended

and now a whole industry chases the fish.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Maybe they might start by regulating the masses of dicey kitchen sink nootropics and other supplements

I am less inclined to demand more nanny state. "THEY do not want us to have access to supplements" largely driven by the Pharma industry.

Humans starting in public schools, need simple consistent classes in categories like: critical thinking; logic. etc.

You want to take an herb because it might help your symptom. You expect zero negative side effects and only positive effects. Thats not logical at all.

chinese herbal system is a system, all about combining and synergistic interactions, and dealing with both the positive and negative effects....

that OUR govt allows to be imported from irregular, unregistered, and uninspected small labs

this part is a super bad plan, and we really need to stop it. I do not trust the chemistry factories....

 

[Wishful]

Humans starting in public schools, need simple consistent classes in categories like: critical thinking; logic. etc.

I think there should be classes in rational thinking, and the tricks that scammers, unethical advertisers, and unethical reporters/authors/publishers use. Show kids what advertisements or news items claim, and the reality behind it. Hmmm, do you think big money might push hard to block such classes?

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

Did we read the same article?

What I read was a short piece with a couple of cardiologists reminding people to be careful with supplements and concerned about young people taking bitter orange and ephedra willy nilly.

Yes, at least I think we did. I know what I read, ad I have to assume it's the same thing you read.

But we read it from different points of view.

I was around in 1994, when the gov't made a HUGE move to take supplements of any kind off the table, and it was preceded by a series of articles like this one, creating a platform for the govt to move in out of "concern" for the greater good. It was a hard fought, long battle, but it lead to a compromise that is still working pretty well today.

The Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of 1994 defines and regulates dietary supplements. Under that act, supplements are regulated by the FDA for Good Manufacturing Practices under 21 CFR Part 111, but their use by us wasn't proscribed or limited, as the interests of the pharmaceutical manufacturers had wanted.

This also more or less coincided with the removal of tryptophan from health store shelves, since pharma had discovered that a lot of people were using it not just to promote decent sleep, but to combat migraine headaches, and with considerable success.

The fable told at that time was that several people had been poisoned by tryptophan, but what they didnt say was that a limited batch of capsules had been provided by a lab in China that had been produced by machinery that had been cleaned with a toxic substance which hadnt been cleared or neutralized before using that machinery to produce the capsules in question. So it wasn't the tryptophan that caused damage, it was faulty manufacturing,and lax review of manufacturing processes.

What followed a few years later was the introduction of a HUUUUGELY expensive series of prescription migraine medications from various different BigPharm companies, every one of them derived from and based on tryptophan, and all of them producing unpleasant side effects.

So when I start seeing a series of articles about the dangers of supplements from vitamins and herbs to peptides and protein powders, as I am now, I get a creepy sense of deja vu from 1994.

That BigPharm and Drs themselves are under apparently considerable pressure from the success of the supplement industry in helping to improve the QOL for many of us, is pretty obvious, and their fix for that isnt to improve their prescription products or medical services, but to remove any alternative and force us into their waiting rooms and pharmacies, hat in hand.


EDIT .... for typos and the usual ....

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

I'd love some medicine that actually worked and didn't cause horrendous side effcts. Do they have that? NO - so i'll stick to my woo.

Couldnt agree ore if I'd written that myself. Right there with you !!!

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

I am less inclined to demand more nanny state. "THEY do not want us to have access to supplements" largely driven by the Pharma industry.

Humans starting in public schools, need simple consistent classes in categories like: critical thinking; logic. etc.

Absolutely !!! What is it about critical thinking that scares govts so much? Hmmmmmmm .... lemme think .....

I think there should be classes in rational thinking, and the tricks that scammers, unethical advertisers, and unethical reporters/authors/publishers use.

I absolutely agree !!! We actually used to have some classes that helped high-schoolers in developing critical, questioning minds (tho it should start a whole lot earlier, probably in elementary school), and I think that now they've even removed debate classes fro the curriculum, which was the last one standing.

To paraphrase Mark Twain....

Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are infinitely adjustable​

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

I found the following article interesting in light of the general consensus in this thread that some sort of training in critical thinking is essential for pre-teens and teens …. apparently, we aren’t the only ones who regard this as an essential focus going forward ….

“As adolescents are frequent users of the internet, we usually expect that they already know how to approach and appraise online information, but the opposite seems to be true” commented Masaryk.

41% Of Teenagers Can’t Tell the Difference Between True and Fake Online Health Messages
https://neurosciencenews.com/teen-health-news-21314/