Annie Hopper's Dynamic Neural Retraining System

[Court]

Hi all, I am a newbie here and just wanted to know if anyone has tried Annie Hopper's Dynamic Neural Retraining System? Thanks xx

 

[joejack102]

I'm wondering this too. Anyone?

 

[Ema]

I know several people that have used DNRS or Gupta with some success, but it's unlikely to find them on patient forums because it's not really allowed to focus on symptoms etc while doing the program.

If you all are on FB, there are a couple of groups there. I'm thinking of one called Neural Retraining Friends in particular.

 

[joejack102]

The allegation is that it is the actual root cause, and that it would cure the entire thing. Do we know if people have completely been cured of POTS from this therapy? Or is it all quack snake-oil salesmen trying to take our $250? I'm highly skeptical of anything that is not available for under $29.99 in paperback, rather than some DVD series.

 

[boombachi]

Not being allowed to focus on symptoms rings alrm bells for me. Imagine you were told antibiotics only work if you don't focus on your symptoms.

If it were possible to distract mysel from my symptoms they would be manageable without treatment.

 

[Ema]

The allegation is that it is the actual root cause, and that it would cure the entire thing. Do we know if people have completely been cured of POTS from this therapy? Or is it all quack snake-oil salesmen trying to take our $250? I'm highly skeptical of anything that is not available for under $29.99 in paperback, rather than some DVD series.

Some people prefer Gupta because it has a money back guarantee.

 

[echobravo]

Do we know if people have completely been cured of POTS from this therapy?

Patrick Ussher cured his POTS with DNRS. He has documented his process and theory of POTS in the book named..”POTS”.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/POTS-What-Really-Why-Happens/dp/1545299390

For other neuroplasticity rewiring approaches related to hyperarousal in the limbic brain, these are interesting:

1. Dan Neuffer’s “CFS Unravelled” book. And his new online program “ANS Rewire”. He healed his severe ME.

https://ansrewire.com

2. The Gupta Programme.
Amygdala Retraining.
He also healed his ME.

https://www.guptaprogramme.com

3. The Body Keeps the Score.
Bessel van der Kolk’s excellent book on trauma and different “new” body-mind therapy options to treat a limbic system stuck in anxiety and arousal. Among them: yoga, EMDR etc.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Body-Keeps-Score-Healing-Trauma/dp/0143127748

4. I have recently seen improvements in my POTS, ME & Dysautonomi from a 6-week ayurvedic treatment in Kerala.

An imbalanced ANS that is stuck in arousal of sympathetic axis - this chronic stress will over the years take its toll on health; digestion, immunity, glands, metabolism.

I believe I have PTSD from a traffic related head injury in my teens, and that the ayurveda massages, steam baths, yoga, herbal medicine etc worked to calm down a chronically aroused SNS.

Here is what I wrote about the stay in Varkala last week on PR.

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/ayurvedic-second-stage-trial-success.56860/

Another member here, @62milestogojoe, pioneered the “ayurveda trials” about a year ago, and went for second treatment in November. With great results.

 

[Ema]

3. The Body Keeps the Score

I loved this book too.

 

[echobravo]

Not being allowed to focus on symptoms rings alrm bells for me

Yes, I have had the same opinion, having heard of Lightning process etc.

But, Dan Neuffer in his book “CFS Unravelled”, actualle makes the same recommendation: avoid being occuppied with disease & symptoms as much as possible. The reason? Our reptile brains work along simple principles concerned with safety, survival, fight, flight. He makes the point that even just thinking of disease and sensing for symptoms - is picked up as danger signals by our amygdala, and this leads to arousal of the sympathetic nervous system (stress, fight&flight, blocking of the rest&digest&heal mode that the parasympathetic axis of the ANS brings about).

 

[Hip]

None of these programs ever mention their success rates.

 

[echobravo]

Testimonials seems to be how these approaches have chosen to document their “success rate”

 

[joejack102]

My thoughts: Why do I have to pay $250 to get the techniques to heal myself? It’s like they are keeping a big secret that allegedly millions of people need to hear instead of allowing people to share the actual techniques such as in a book, they just want a heap of money. Sounds too good to be true for too much money. Couldn’t they put the techniques in a book on Amazon Kindle for $19.99? I desperately need help, but I do not like being asked to pay so much for a set of DVD’s that cost them less than $5/set to reproduce. Smells of snake oil.

 

[Ema]

Gupta did publish a paper with Mayo. I have not read it.

The Mayo Clinic study of Gupta Amygdala Retraining was published in April this year. There are some serious problems with the study, eg the high drop out rate, but leaving those aside, this is what the researchers wrote about Gupta Amygdala Retraining:

“Amygdala retraining serves to restore a more normal state of homeostasis through deconditioning the amygdala-mediated fear response to distressing internal sensations and thoughts. This is accomplished through several mind–body techniques that promote relaxation and attempt to reorient attention away from the distressing symptoms of the viscera or catastrophizing thoughts.”

The researchers concluded:

“The findings from this pilot randomized clinical trial of amygdala retraining provide reason for guarded optimism regarding the addition of mind–body techniques in helping patients cope with symptoms of fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue.”

Note that they only said, “helping patients cope with symptoms”. They did not say that it could cure these conditions. The word “cure” doesn’t appear in the article at all. Neither do the words “recovery” or “neuroplasticity”.

Toussaint LL, Whipple MO, Abboud LL, Vincent A, Wahner-Roedler DL. (2012) ‘A mind-body technique for symptoms related to fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue.’ Explore (NY). 8(2):92-8. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22385563

The study is available in full here: http://www.guptaprogramme.com/mayoclinicstudy2012.pdf.

 

[Learner1]

Note that they only said, “helping patients cope with symptoms”. They did not say that it could cure these conditions. The word “cure” doesn’t appear in the article at all.

Coping with symptoms can make having this illness more pleasant, but its likely to be only a bandaid if the root causes aren't found and addressed.

 

[Mary]

Hi all, I am a newbie here and just wanted to know if anyone has tried Annie Hopper's Dynamic Neural Retraining System? Thanks xx

I haven't tried this but I did try Gupta's program 10 years ago and it did nothing. It told me to disregard my symptoms and all that did was make me crash. It seemed to be promoting the idea that focusing on symptoms was causing them (if that makes any sense!). The focusing doesn't cause the symptoms; rather, having the symptoms causes the focus on them. e.g., when I was healthier I didn't focus carefully on how I felt each day or on how much physical activity I did because it didn't affect me adversely. But after I developed ME/CFS and started crashing, I learned I had to pay close attention to how I was feeling every day and how much activity I did in order to avoid the dreaded crashing.

I did get my money back from Gupta.

 

[char47]

"“Amygdala retraining serves to restore a more normal state of homeostasis through deconditioning the amygdala-mediated fear response to distressing internal sensations and thoughts. This is accomplished through several mind–body techniques that promote relaxation and attempt to reorient attention away from the distressing symptoms of the viscera or catastrophizing thoughts.”

They are always saying things like this about PWME, but i simply dont have any kind of 'fear response' or distressing/catastrophising thoughts about my symptoms. I mean i dont like them, but my emotional response to symptoms is to be a bit miserable/bummed out, even when they are bad enough that i cant move about at all, if it's been a prolonged bad crash i can get a bit weepy feelin sorry for myself, but thats more to do with loneliness/isolation, i dont ever feel 'afraid' or anxious about it.
I mean initially i was a bit alarmed wondering what was going on because they can be so severe sometimes, but once i knew i didn't have a brain tumour or whatever that fear disappeared completely. And besides if i get anxious & 'adrenalined up' because of some issue in my life, i feel a hell of a lot better than when i am calm! So none of the theory fits with my experience at all.

The other thing about these progrms that bothers me is that they hypothesise that the brain is reacting inappropriately, (as if there is an attack when there isnt one really)..... ok, fine, but what if that hyposthesis is wrong & you train your brain to ignore things it should in fact be responding to? At the end of they day we dont know yet whats going on so tinkering doesnt seem too wise to me, unless the hypothesis really fits your experience.

The problem is that with ME being conflated with CF - which is a label being handed out to all & sundry these days, esp in UK, & even when people are dx with decent criteria, it could still cover a host of different pathologies/causes. So there may well be loads of people who do have some kind of fatiguing condition caused by a hyperaroused SNS, but mine certainly is not hyperaroused, it's the other way around iyam!

I wonder if the key with some of these programs is to see whether the hypothesis fits with your own experience & if it does then maybe it's worth a try.

But i do agree that it's troubling that it costs so much - the developers of these systems are very secretive about what it involves - protecting their bottom line & pockets.... just like big pharma do...

 

[Mary]

@char47 - I didn't post the quote to which you were responding, but somehow you got my name in there. The poster was @Ema.

 

[char47]

@char47 - I didn't post the quote to which you were responding, but somehow you got my name in there. The poster was @Ema.

oh Mary i so sorry i dont know how that happened, i reviewed my post beforehand too sorry about that. I dont know why it came out like that, it had a quote from you at the top of the post & when i went to edit it to put the error right it was still there.... clearly something got confused somehow!
I originally was trying to quote you too... what i was trying to say was

The focusing doesn't cause the symptoms; rather, having the symptoms causes the focus on them.

Precisely i often think that too.

 

[Diwi9]

I'm with @Mary, it's well-studied for over 100 years...it's called classical conditioning and part of our natural bodily process telling us what we should and should not be doing. It is your health, listen to your body it's making noise for a reason.

I had mild ME/CFS. I went into quasi-remission after 2-3 years. I can imagine that doing this sort of adjunct therapy with mild ME/CFS or during a recovery phase could be helpful to a natural healing process. My guess is that these recovery stories are made up of people who were in my past mild condition with ongoing improvement or who had "chronic fatigue" that did not actually meet the diagnostic criteria for ME/CFS.

Since my relapse five years later in 2016 (please note "relapse"...how many people who are recovered also end up relapsing in due course?), I'm dealing with a whole new animal.

I don't disparage anyone from finding something that is helpful to them. Please, pursue any avenue of your choosing that works for you. But, none of these for-profits are panaceas for such a complex disease that can range from having to sleep longer on weekends to being completely bed-bound and tube-fed.