Adventures with ashwagandha

PeterPositive

Senior Member
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1,426
I've started taking Ashwagandha at the end of 2014 with noticeable effects in reduction of anxiety and improved energy.

At the time I was using Seeking Health's 300mgs capsules, 3% whitanolides extract and I kept going for almost 3 months, then I ran out of it and took a pause to avoid overdoing it.

Fast forward to this year, I was going to try Ashwagandha again since I was dealing with lots of fatigue and inability to deal with many simple physical tasks. I ordered again the same brand but noticed they had changed the formula, this time 4.5% extract in 450mg capsules.

I thought "maybe this time I will get a stronger effect". It turns out I didn't and I realized there are many different formulations out there some of which provide very different effects and some probably don't even work.

The new SeekingHealth product did nothing for me in terms of energy boost (or anxiety reduction) but it regularly gave me a mild stomach ache. I was puzzled, so I started reading a bit and it turns out that some Ashwagandha extracts work better for boosting energy while others tend to be more relaxing. In other words you may be buying a product labeled "Ashwagandha" and not know exactly which effect to expect, if any.

Why is that? Apparently it depends on the type of extract (root vs root + leaves) and in particular the concentrations of individual whitanolides (the active ingredients of the plant) which are numerous and with different functions. If you're a chemistry nerd you can take a look here:
http://examine.com/supplements/Ashwagandha/
under "Composition", there's a whole lot of components.

I recently tried Jarrow's Ashwagandha which uses a patented extract called KSM-66 which did the trick for me, boosting my low energy to a less horrible level. Unfortunately this extract does not affect anxiety nor it can be used before going to bed to help sleep (as I used to do with the previous product).

There's another patented extract called Sensoril, which seems more fine tuned towards relaxation and anxiety reduction, but I've never tried it. Seems a bit more difficult to find too, at least in my area.

What is your experience with Ashwagandha? What brand and dosage are you using?
Has anyone tried the Sensoril extract? If so did it help?

Cheers

PS: if you have tried it and didn't get any effect, chances are you've tried an inefficacious product such as the Seeking Health extract. (I used to like their products because they don't add a ton of fillers, but this time they let me down.) I'd recommend giving a try to Jarrow's product. You should feel the effects pretty rapidly. For me it makes a signicant difference at 600-900 mgs/day.
 

JaimeS

Senior Member
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Silicon Valley, CA
Ashwaghanda has serotinergic effects, and should be avoided in anyone with hypersensitivity to serotonin or serotonin precursors. Induced something akin to serotonin syndrome in me, admittedly when I was at my most sensitive.

I experienced identical symptoms from 5-HTP, so buyer beware. ;)

-J
 

cman89

Senior Member
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Location
Hayden, Idaho
Ashwaghanda has serotinergic effects, and should be avoided in anyone with hypersensitivity to serotonin or serotonin precursors. Induced something akin to serotonin syndrome in me, admittedly when I was at my most sensitive.

I experienced identical symptoms from 5-HTP, so buyer beware. ;)

-J
Crap, I think I may have created something akin to that in myself through a few of these recent days....
 

PeterPositive

Senior Member
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1,426
Ashwaghanda has serotinergic effects, and should be avoided in anyone with hypersensitivity to serotonin or serotonin precursors. Induced something akin to serotonin syndrome in me, admittedly when I was at my most sensitive.

I experienced identical symptoms from 5-HTP, so buyer beware. ;)

-J
Weird. 5-HTP does nothing for me and sometimes makes things worse, while I get significant benefits from Ashwagandha.
 

Chocolove

Tournament of the Phoenix - Rise Again
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@JaimeS It would indeed be nice if they had inline cites. At least they have an attribution section with auto links to abstracts for further perusal at the end of the article.
 
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I used Ashwagandha right before I got really sick. It kept be going for 1-2 days until I crashed really badly. Now I dont notice anything
 

adreno

PR activist
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@adreno -- It's a downstream effect:
Ok. Almost every substance will have some sort of effect on neurotransmitters, without it necessarily being a problem. I've taking it together with an SSRI with no ill effects.

Interesting that it inhibits nNOS though.
 

JaimeS

Senior Member
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Location
Silicon Valley, CA
Ok. Almost every substance will have some sort of effect on neurotransmitters, without it necessarily being a problem. I've taking it together with an SSRI with no ill effects.

Interesting that it inhibits nNOS though.

I agree with you that downstream effects are immeasurable, and I wouldn't want to go down that particular rabbit-hole for every substance, drug, or supplement. However, the effect seems to have been profound in my case, and identical to the one I experienced from 5-HTP so in this particular case it's meaningful to me.

To extrapolate a little further, though, I actually wonder if what I was experiencing was not directly related to serotonin levels, but indirectly related to immune function. What I experienced could go along with serotonin syndrome, but also could have been a cytokine storm. So, not linked to increased serotonin per se, but linked to alterations in immune function.

There were honestly too many variables in my acute phase to be able to say. I did have Bell's-palsy-like symptoms following, with the right side of my face slumping for ages.

Hate even thinking about those times. My heart is with everyone who is still there.
 

adreno

PR activist
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4,841
From examine.com:
5.7. Serotonergic Neurotransmission

Supplementation of 100mg/kg ashwagandha root to normal rats for up to eight weeks has been noted to reduce 5-HT1A serotonin signalling in response to agonists while increase sensitivity of 5-HT2 signalling.[122]

One study using ashwagandha has noted increases in plasma serotonin in stressed rats alongside the antidepressive effects, but it was confounded with other herbs (Clitoria ternatea, Bacopa monnieri, and Asparagus racemosus).[123]Elsewhere, one study in depressed mice noted that ashwagandha root in isolation was effective in preventing serotonin losses (although not completely) which was attributed to reducing corticosterone[124]

Ashwagandha seems to have some evidence to suggest that it can increase 5-HT2 receptor signalling while reducing 5-HT1A receptor signalling, thus repartitioning serotonin signalling

The 5-HT2 receptors appears to be involved in suppressingly nNOS activity in neurons (nNOS being localized with glutaminergic NMDA receptors[125] and is involved in NMDA dependent learning and excitotoxicity[126]) as inhibition of 5-HT2enhances nNOS activity[127] and ashwagandha has been noted to enhance signalling of this receptor subset[122] and reduce nNOS immunostaining following stress.[124]

It is possible that this enhanced signalling via the 5-HT2 subset underlies some of the neuroprotective effects of ashwagandha
I could use some nNOS suppression.
 

JaimeS

Senior Member
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Location
Silicon Valley, CA
What I did read the other day was Ashwaganda can possibly be implicated at times with serotonin syndrome like symptoms. I think I did that with a combo of Ashwaganda, St Johns Wort, and Dextromethorphan

That could definitely be the fault of the St J's! Last I read (awhile back) it worked through a mechanism much like an SSRI's.
 

adreno

PR activist
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4,841
What I did read the other day was Ashwaganda can possibly be implicated at times with serotonin syndrome like symptoms. I think I did that with a combo of Ashwaganda, St Johns Wort, and Dextromethorphan
I suppose it's possible. Serotonin syndrome is normally mediated through 5-HT2A. You can use cyproheptadine to counteract it.
 
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Chocolove

Tournament of the Phoenix - Rise Again
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HerbMed has an up-to-date listing of hyperlinked PubMed research and other info on Ashwagandha here:
http://www.herbmed.org/index.html#param.wapp?sw_page=viewHerb?herbID=136&sw_anchor=sw_anchor_categoryID_5

Ixoreal Biomed three-year commitment (announced in late 2013) helps the American Botanical Council (ABC) keep its HerbMedPro™ database up-to-date with the latest scientific and clinical research on ashwagandha. HerbMedPro is an interactive and comprehensive database available on ABC’s website that provides access to important scientific and clinical research data underlying the use of nearly 250 herbs and their effects on human health. HerbMedPro is available to ABC members at the Academic level and higher; its "sister" site HerbMed®, however, is free and available to the general public.

"About Ixoreal Biomed

Ixoreal Biomed is an herbal extracts and pharmaceuticals company based in Los Angeles, CA, and Hyderabad, India. Ixoreal is focused solely on producing a high-quality extract of ashwagandha called KSM-66®. Ixoreal has developed a proprietary process that integrates modern scientific technologies with traditional Ayurvedic concepts to produce a highly concentrated full-spectrum ashwagandha root extract.

Ixoreal has invested heavily in basic research and development and in building a modern scientific repository of efficacy data on ashwagandha. To this end, Ixoreal has conducted seven human clinical trials and two animal studies on the effectiveness of ashwagandha in several important functional areas. Ixoreal describes itself as the only ashwagandha manufacturer in the world that is entirely vertically integrated with its own farms, production facilities, testing laboratories, research center, and distribution division. More information is available at www.ixoreal.com."
http://cms.herbalgram.org/press/201...90&signature=dd12e5d9d391d4d8cdac9a835c2b9632

"KSM-66 is an ashwagandha extract made by Ixoreal Biomed, created via a process that took 14 years of R&D to develop and refine. KSM-66 is the highest-concentration extract on the world market today that is drawn using only the roots of the ashwagandha plant. It is produced using the first-of-its-kind extraction process, based on “Green-Chemistry” principles, without using alcohol or any other chemical solvents."
http://ksm66ashwagandhaa.com/

An herb to watch: Ashwagandha science growing consumer ...
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www.nutraingredients-usa.com/.../An-herb-to-watch-Ashwagandha-science-growing-...
Mar 30, 2016 - The most eye-catching growth is reported by Ixoreal Biomed Inc., which only has one product: KSM-66 Ashwagandha root .... How reductionism vs whole spectrum plays out in the real world .... Natreon Inc. | 18-Jul-2016 | PDF ...

@PeterPositive In re: Sensoril vs KSM-66
Sensoril and KSM-66
As extracts of the same plant, how different could Sensoril and KSM-66 be? It’s true that they generally offer the same potential benefits in relieving the negative effects of stress and anxiety. Both have passed clinical tests and trials and conducted thorough research on the effects of ashwagandha. Both use patented, water-based extraction processes that eliminate the bitter taste of the herb. So what is so different about them, and how do they compare to regular ashwagandha extracts?

Most extracts of ashwagandha are standardized to 2.5% withanolides. This means that 2.5% of the extract by weight is withanolides, which are a group of at least 7 related compounds in ashwagandha.

Sensoril, on the other hand, is standardized to 10% withanolides. The goal of Sensoril was to get the most potent extract, with the highest levels of withanolides on the market. This means that most people report Sensoril as being very strong, calming, and sedating. Often those with severe anxiety, or those wanting restful sleep, will prefer Sensoril the most.

KSM-66 opted for a different approach. Their extract is standardized to 5% withanolides, and sought to bring out an extract with the natural ratios of ashwagandha root. They spent 14 years on R&D to bring out an extract that gives high withanolides, but keeps the ratios in line with what is found in nature. The though behind it was that it was not just about getting the most withanolides, but getting them in the proper ratios. This means that KSM-66 is not as potent, but is actually described by many as stimulating and energizing, while still being an anxiolytic. Many times people with mild anxiety will prefer KSM-66, as it is less sedating and more useful during the day.

Sensoril and KSM-66 offer different benefits aside from potential stress relief.

Some studies suggest that Sensoril may:
  • -Promote cardiovascular function
  • -Encourage more restful sleep
  • -Increase resistance to fatigue
On the other hand, KSM-66’s benefits may include:
  • -Improved memory and cognition
  • -Enhanced energy and stamina
  • -Improved sexual function in both men and women
  • -Enhanced strength and muscle recovery
Another part of the difference comes down to the traditions of Ayurvedic medicine. Sensoril uses extracts from both the leaf and roots of the ashwagandha herb, while KSM-66 takes the more traditional route and comprises only the root extract. As a result, KSM-66 offers the highest concentration full spectrum extract of ashwagandha on the market. “Full spectrum” refers to an extract that maintains the balance of the various components in the ashwagandha plant, ensuring that each is equally represented in the final product. As a root extract, KSM-66 is virtually non-toxic. Since Sensoril is more concentrated, with over 10% withanolides, encapsulated dosages of it are lower than that of KSM-66.

Deciding between KSM-66 and Sensoril depends on what you’re looking for. Sensoril offers potential everyday stress relief and sleep quality improvement, while KSM-66 is seeing more use in sports nutrition as a means of possibly improving fitness. As a full spectrum extract, KSM-66 also offers a higher potency of the compounds in the ashwagandha roots.

However, it’s important to understand that both supplements may offer different effects based on the person. Brain chemistry and the human body are complex and differ from person to person. You may not need the high withanolides of Sensoril, or you may need something else entirely. Do your research and consult your doctor before you consider taking any nootropic supplement or compound.

Sources:

http://nootropicsdepot.com/articles/ashwagandha-sensoril-vs-ksm66-/
 
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