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Videos from ME-conference in Stockholm (October 2016) Includes lectures from Fluge and Bateman

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS News' started by Kalliope, Dec 2, 2016.

  1. Kalliope

    Kalliope Senior Member

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    Norway
    The Swedish ME Association RME (Riksföreningen för ME-patienter) has now released videos of lectures from their ME-conference in Stockholm in October.

    Two of the lectures were in English:
    Summary of the IOM Report and the Relationship to Diagnosis and Treatment of ME/CFS
    Lucinda Bateman, MD, Bateman Horne Center, Salt Lake City, USA

    The RituxME and CycloME studies – Ongoing Clinical Research in the ME/CFS Research Group
    Øystein Fluge, MD, Dep. Oncology and Medical Physics, Haukeland University Hospital, Bergen, Norge

    All lectures can be seen here.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2016
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  2. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

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    Thanks, @Kalliope - I wonder if you might want to put "including Fluge and Mella" in the title - people will be very interested in their talk.

    So will I! Going to watch it now. :)
     
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  3. slysaint

    slysaint Senior Member

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    Just watched this; so refreshing .............she really knows what she's talking about.......................what a difference to EC.
     
  4. Grigor

    Grigor Senior Member

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    Wish I could watch this. Ugh? Never heard Fluge talk. Must be super interesting.....
     
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  5. BurnA

    BurnA Senior Member

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    Just watched, I can confirm he is super interesting :)

    They are doing a lot of work but
    they will know so much more once the code is unlocked on rituxime in Oct 2017.

    It's impressive.
     
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  6. Grigor

    Grigor Senior Member

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    Thank you for explaining a bit. But now I'm even more curious haha.
     
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  7. BurnA

    BurnA Senior Member

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    He mentions a paper they have in review that should be published shortly. Hopefully that will explain more, and if I got it right it should support the lack of energy production theory similar to what Ron Davis is saying. But they don't consider it a hibernation state.
     
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  8. Forbin

    Forbin Senior Member

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    I really got a lot out of the Fluge video (I haven't watched the Bateman one yet). I feel like I finally understand some of the charts that I've seen in connection with the work in Norway.

    One thing I thought was interesting was the way Fluge was kind of non-committal about whether the Rituximab response was due to the elimination of auto-antibodies. He seemed to suggest that it was also possible that the b-cells were producing something else, yet to be discovered, that, like auto-antibodies, took time to be cleared from the body.

    I don't know how likely it is that it actually could be something other than auto-antibodies, but I'm impressed by people who approach a problem by questioning everything.
     
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  9. Forbin

    Forbin Senior Member

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    Yeah, that was interesting. Rather than "hibernation," he characterized the state as a "struggle for energy."
     
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  10. TrixieStix

    TrixieStix Senior Member

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    And Fluge seemed pretty confident the data is showing that chronic EBV infection is NOT the problem due to a patient with known high EBV titers having an almost immediate positive response to Rituximab while ME/CFS patients takes months to respond to the drug.

    *This part of the Fluge video is in the question & answer part at the every end
     
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  11. TrixieStix

    TrixieStix Senior Member

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    Fingers crossed their data/paper makes it thru it's current peer review as he mentioned so they can share their finding in a few weeks. I hate having to wait!!! Exciting stuff.
     
  12. TrixieStix

    TrixieStix Senior Member

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    Yes this post needs to be getting much more views/replies and titling it "Fluge & Mella" will catch people's attention better as they are used to seeing the names used in conjunction rather than individually. Perhaps if it doesn't start getting more discussion over the next few days someone could make a second post linking to the video using that title.
     
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  13. Grigor

    Grigor Senior Member

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    Most of it I probably read somewhere I guess. But maybe some new stuff here and there.
     
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  14. slysaint

    slysaint Senior Member

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    His hypothesis
    upload_2016-12-4_13-34-41.png
     
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  15. slysaint

    slysaint Senior Member

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  16. trishrhymes

    trishrhymes Senior Member

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    Just finished watching. So exciting. Every doctor in the world should watch both. Especially the BPS crowd. See how real scientists work.
     
  17. Sidereal

    Sidereal Senior Member

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    I hope this metabolomics paper gets published soon. Tantalising stuff.
     
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  18. A.B.

    A.B. Senior Member

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    For those who would like to know more about lactate:

    The cell has three ways to generate energy: glycosis, citric acid cycle, and the electron transport chain.

    Energy carrier molucules such as ATP store the energy so that it can used when and where it is needed.

    Glycolysis takes place outside the mitochondria and produces some energy carrier molecules from glucose as well as pyruvate.

    The pyruvate can be converted into acetyl CoA which can fuel the citric acid cycle, which produces more energy carrier molecules and fuel for the electron transport chain. This also requires oxygen.

    If there is no oxygen, or some problem making acetyl CoA from pyruvate, then pyruvate is fermented which produces lactate. This is anaerobic metabolism which produces much less energy.

    The Norwegians have mentioned that there might be a problem with the enzyme pyruvate dehydrogenase which is needed to convert pyruvate into acetyl CoA. There might also be a problem with oxygen supply. Either way there would be increased reliance on glycolysis.

    Increased lactate and low anaerobic thresholds indicate that we have problems using our efficient oxygen requiring energy production systems for some reason.

    Disclaimer: I'm not an expect, and hope I didn't get too many things wrong here.
     
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  19. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Rebel without a biscuit

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    They already know. They don't care. :mad: But you already know this. It's just so hard for any of us with a conscience to fathom the depravity.
     
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  20. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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    I think to much oxygen is used for making superoxide which after some reactions becomes hydrogenperoxide which can destroy invading agents DNA and protein .
     

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