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The Antidepressant Trap

Discussion in 'Other Health News and Research' started by Cort, Apr 8, 2018.

  1. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

    Check out this superb New York Times article about trouble many have people getting off antidepressants. Just as with opioid pain killers the antidepressant studies are almost always short-term and have rarely assessed the long term effects of the drugs despite the fact that millions of people are using these drugs for long periods of time. It's really incredible.

    Let's not point the finger too hard at Big Pharma - they have no incentive (other than a moral imperative which businesses often lack unfortunately - to do these studies.

    The federal govt is the real culprit IMO. Since Pharma won't do them it's up to the feds to do them and to help produce validated withdrawal protocols. Because they haven't many millions of people are essentially guinea pigs....and some really suffer.

    This is not to say that long term antidepressant use can't be helpful. It certainly can be but for some people it can become a nightmare....

    Fascinating reading...

    https://www.nytimes.com/…/antidepressants-withdrawal-prozac…
     
  2. Wishful

    Wishful Senior Member

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    I had a neighbour who was put on antidepressants...without being told that they were addictive. It caused her a couple of years of painful withdrawl. It hadn't done anything for her depression either.
     
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  3. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    I personally don't think there's much of a difference between Big Pharma and the Federal Gov. Regulators. It's one big revolving door, where all the parties have very similar interests. -- I doubt that when these people eventually come up for a karmic review, that they'll be given a free pass because they didn't have an incentive to do the right thing. When their actions/inactions negatively affect many people, there's always consequences.​
     
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  4. Thinktank

    Thinktank Senior Member

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    Even worse is withdrawing from benzodiazepines like xanax, klonopin, valium etc.
    I have been through hell withdrawing from klonopin.

    Although some people really need them, these psych drugs like benzo's and AD's are way too easily prescribed by non-specialists like G.P.'s.
     
  5. Wishful

    Wishful Senior Member

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    They're not just too easily prescribed (without appropriate warnings either). The doctors give out free samples of these addictive products.
     
  6. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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    The thing that was never mentioned in the article is that many of the drugs deplete nutrients, like B vitamins..in fact, much of the time, nutrient deficiencies or imbalances cause the depression or anxiety to begin with.

    These nutrients include tyrosine, tryptophan, GABA, folate, B6, B12, zinc, copper, and lithium.

    Additionally, most psychiatric drugs can damage mitochondria.

    So, if the drugs were actually helping, taking them away can leave patients with these hidden problems that doctors don't address.

    Two good books on the nutrients are:

    New Optimum Nutrition for the Mind https://www.amazon.com/dp/1591202590/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fJMYAb5JK1TPJ

    https://www.walshinstitute.org/nutrient-power.html
     
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  7. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    @Learner1
    is the info on mito damage in those books?

    btw - have you seen the articles saying vitamins & supplements are a waste of money? (like below, w quotes from doctors) I always laugh because supplements have kept me propped up for years.... Of course, YMMV and you have to do your homework and not believe the hype... It's a shame that ppl can't try methylation supps and test snps, etc. before going down that road..
    https://www.thrillist.com/health/nation/vitamins-and-supplements-are-a-waste-of-money
     
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  8. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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    No, the books discuss how nutrients affect how the brain works, based on a lot of research.

    At the 2016 United Mitochondrial Disease Conference, there were 2 presentations by scientists who had tested mitochondrial toxicity of various drugs and found about 75% of pharmaceutical drugs negatively impacted mitochondria.

    As for psychiatric drugs, here are some links:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/21120605/

    "The results demonstrate that the apoptotic cell death observed in antidepressant-treated cells could be due to disruption of mitochondrial function resulting from multiple inhibition of mitochondrial enzyme complexes"

    https://www.nature.com/articles/nrn3229-c1

    "Multiple studies have shown that both typical and atypical antipsychotic medications can inhibit the mitochondrial respiratory chain. Similarly, the mood stabilizer valproic acid can inhibit the mitochondrial respiratory chain and result in secondary impairment of mitochondrial function through the induction of carnitine deficiency. Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor antidepressants inhibit mitochondrial function in animal models of depression and are potentially toxic in high doses, resulting in dysfunction of the mitochondrial respiratory chain and decreased ATP production."

    See attached for a list of some of the known mitochondrial damaging meds from the Mito Action website. There are many others.

    Yes, I have. I have also looked at the NAHNES database and statistics on individual nutrient deficiencies across the population.

    The problem with many nutrient studies is they typically use a single nutrient without the other cofactors for the biochemical processes it's used in on a random group of people with differing health historirs, environmental fsctors, microbiome, diet, and nutrient status.

    I also have found that testing for nutrient deficiencies and imbalances and responding to them through supplementation has been very powerful for me, whether it's been taking tyrosine for dopamine production, orniyhine and citrulline to help me sleep, methionine for anxiety symptoms, and B12 to help me be alert.

    There is a lot of politics behind nutrients, and the pharmaceutical companies can't make much money from nutrients they can't patent, and unfortunately, the medical establishment doesn't know as much as yet should about nutrition.
     

    Attached Files:

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  9. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    bingo

    yes, helped me much more than any drug, although I would def take a drug if they would work...

    exactly
     
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  10. Eastman

    Eastman Senior Member

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    I think the medical profession must share the blame. If the drugs are not assessed for long term use, doctors should not routinely prescribe them for long term use. But that is often what happens because most doctors are not willing to spend the time required to find the root cause of the problem.

    From the article:
     
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  11. Crash Davis

    Crash Davis

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    My ex-wife is having the same issue trying to come off a decade of daily Effexor XR use. Messy stuff that they don't warn you about upfront. General practitioners that don't know squat about the brain passing them out like candy. I told her she needs to find a psychiatrist to help her taper down with short term use of other meds.

    https://www.nytimes.com/…/antidepressants-withdrawal-prozac…
     
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  12. CFS_for_19_years

    CFS_for_19_years Hoarder of biscuits

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    Addiction is not the same thing as discontinuation syndrome:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antidepressant_discontinuation_syndrome#Culture_and_history
    I've gone through discontinuation and I've never exhibited drug-seeking behavior. I've also had to find my safest discontinuation schedule by trial and error. Agree here:
    For anyone who wonders if discontinuation is causing symptoms vs. something else causing symptoms (nausea, headache, flu-like feeling), take a small dose of the antidepressant and see how you feel in a few hours. If some or most of those symptoms disappear, it's probably discontinuation syndrome.

    I recall reading a study that withdrawal from an antidepressant will take the same amount of time whether it's done slowly or quickly, and doing it slowly has fewer adverse effects.

    Many antidepressants are also prescribed for pain and sleep, off-label uses that weren't mentioned in the article.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2018
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  13. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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    A close family member was on a cocktail of 3 psych meds with some pretty strong effects due to a serious mental health diagnosis.

    A functional medicine doctor did testing and found a disrupted gut microbiome and many nutrient imbalances and deficiencies..one by one, he worked to get the patient off the psych drugs by supporting the pathways used by the drugs with nutrients, fixing the mictobiime, and replenishing and balancing other nutrients.

    The patient is completely recovered, off all meds, and the withdrawal was pretty straightforward though it could have been much worse without the nutrient support. The books I posted above were quite helpful in the process.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2018
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  14. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    @Learner1

    Yes, that’s a good point re gut microbiome... if it’s disrupted u have trouble absorbing nutrients
     
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  15. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

    Ouch!
     
  16. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

    You know what I just found out - Big Pharma has been behind efforts to keep down medical marijuana research - because it will hurt their bottom line with opioid painkillers.
     
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  17. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

    Good point. Doctors are the ones prescribing antidepressants right and left apparently...
     
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  18. Crash Davis

    Crash Davis

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    I've worked in medicine for 18 years and have concluded general practitioners have no business prescribing psychotropic medications yet they make up by far the vast majority of prescriptions since nobody wants to visit a psychiatrist because THAT would make them 'crazy'. Nobody other than a psychiatrist or a neurologist should be prescribing things for the brain, period.
     
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  19. Wishful

    Wishful Senior Member

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    People want doctors to 'do something', preferably without involving exercise, diet modification, or any other sort of sacrifice. People want magic pills. The pharmaceutical industry wants to sell magic pills, even if they have no real benefit for people. The administrative part of the medical system wants expansion of their dominion (and thus increased pay and prestige). The voices for actual health care for patients just don't have much strength compared to the money talking. Sad, but I don't see any way to solve that.
     
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  20. JES

    JES Senior Member

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    AD's have evidence base for certain uses, especially for severe depression and for short-term depression treatment. There is enough data to support improvement over placebo for certain conditions. I also know people who got rid of their severe panic disorder by AD's, so it's not all black and white. The problem is the over-prescription for all sorts of conditions and the fact that AD's have a tendency to lose effect (stop working) after a longer time on them. So taking AD's for years might not provide much benefits and at very least long-term effects should be studied more.
     
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