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Scientists post open letter to Lancet on Virology Blog - call for independent re-analysis of PACE

Esther12

Esther12

Senior Member
Messages
13,774
charles shepherd said:
So we are still on an uphill struggle...
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British culture plays an important role in that imo.

I think it's funny that the letter specifically says:

The reviewers should be from outside the U.K. and...
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The Lancet and PACE have never had strong arguments, they've just had prestige and prejudice on their side. If we're able to break through that we could find ourselves rolling down the other side of the hill.
 
A

Aurator

Senior Member
Messages
625
charles shepherd said:
However, it's worth noting that many of these key points have already been raised in previous correspondence relating to previous PACE trial papers.

These criticisms were very firmly dismissed by the authors and by the Lancet.

So we are still on an uphill struggle...
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If the Lancet again refuses to acknowledge the plain facts that render PACE worthless, then a direct struggle with them is probably unwinnable, and it must be taken to a higher authority and/or given a broader focus.

It's clearly futile continuing to pin one's hopes on managing to appeal to your opponents' better nature when those opponents have repeatedly failed to show that they have one; common sense dictates there is a limit on how many chances and how long you give someone to demonstrate they're capable of resipiscence.
 
Seven7

Seven7

Seven
Messages
3,444
Location
USA
Well if they do not release the trial data, we will have to take our precious little money and try to replicate but with the 2 day cpet so we have measurable evidence. And we can finally know/demonstrate if it woks or not.
 
C

charles shepherd

Senior Member
Messages
2,239
Sasha said:
But what's new is that it's big-name scientists who are saying it and it's not buried in the correspondence column of The Lancet - and therefore not under the control of The Lancet.

I think it's important to recognise when things have stepped up a gear!
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Yes, you are correct - this letter does take us into the next gear

For the first time in over 10 years of dealing with the PACE trial, the charity/patient sector now has some robust and very welcome support from the ME/CFS research community

Long may it continue…..
 
BurnA

BurnA

Senior Member
Messages
2,087
Aurator said:
If the Lancet again refuses to acknowledge the plain facts that render PACE worthless, then a direct struggle with them is probably unwinnable, and it must be taken to a higher authority and/or given a broader focus.

It's clearly futile continuing to pin one's hopes on managing to appeal to your opponents' better nature when those opponents have repeatedly failed to show that they have one; common sense dictates there is a limit on how many chances and how long you give someone to demonstrate they're capable of resipiscence.
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I dont think they have a better nature nor is anyone appealing for it. I think it is more a case of embarrassing them into submission or at least letting them feel the full force of the scientific community. It's easy for them to resist a few patients but now they will feel the heat.
 
L

leela

Senior Member
Messages
3,290
Such gratitude to all involved (journalists, scientists, advocates) for continuing to build this incredible momentum.
I sense the Lancet will have a hard time sweeping this under the rug now--especially if more scientists step up and sign,
as happened with the IoM.
 
BurnA

BurnA

Senior Member
Messages
2,087
alex3619

alex3619

Senior Member
Messages
13,810
Location
Logan, Queensland, Australia
lnester7 said:
Well if they do not release the trial data, we will have to take our precious little money and try to replicate but with the 2 day cpet so we have measurable evidence. And we can finally know/demonstrate if it woks or not.
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Some of the Workwell researchers (I forget who exactly) have stated something like a trial similar to PACE is unethical given the measurable physical harm.
 
MeSci

MeSci

ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?
Messages
8,231
Location
Cornwall, UK
Esther12 said:
The Lancet and PACE have never had strong arguments, they've just had prestige and prejudice on their side. If we're able to break through that we could find ourselves rolling down the other side of the hill.
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That conjures up a happy image of rolling down a grassy slope in the sunshine...trouble is, with ME it would probably make me dizzy. :(
 
MeSci

MeSci

ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?
Messages
8,231
Location
Cornwall, UK
user9876 said:
Its a "game" on a radio show in the UK. (and a tube station in London). The "winner" ends up at mornington crescent.

The quotes are there as its a spoof that has been going on for many years
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You can listen to an episode of Mornington Cresent here. It's from a very silly - but often very funny - BBC Radio 4 programme called I'm Sorry I Haven't a Clue.

I used to go past Mornington Crescent on the Tube when I lived in London - it was closed then, like a 'ghost station', which is why I suspect that it was chosen as the name for this game. It was the equivalent of nowhere.
 
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