• Welcome to Phoenix Rising!

    Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of and finding treatments for complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia (FM), long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.

    To become a member, simply click the Register button at the top right.

Question for the women re: pain

Sushi

Moderation Resource Albuquerque
Messages
19,935
Location
Albuquerque
I once had an ND tell me to try castor oil packs (I hope I am remembering this term correctly and may be way off!) but I never did b/c it seemed very confusing and a lot of work to prepare and I just didn't believe that it would work. Has anyone heard of that?
I've used castor oil packs for other purposes and they aren't difficult to do once you get the things needed. I haven't used them for period pain, but it could be worth a try. Here are basic instructions:

1) Get a bottle of castor oil from the pharmacy
2) Get a piece of flannel about 12 inches by 6 or 8 inches
3) Get a heating pad (you probably have one)
4) have a couple of old towel ready
5) have something like a plastic table cloth ready.

You are set! Put the plastic piece on the bed. cover it with an old towel for comfort. Lie down and put the piece of flannel on your lower abdomen. Dribble enough castor oil on it to soak it but not enough to run off. Cover the flannel with an old towel. Put the heating pad over the towel. Lie there for about 20 minutes. Wipe, then wash off the oil.

Sushi
 

GracieJ

Senior Member
Messages
772
Location
Utah
@Gingergrrl Roughly six. It does vary a little with height. Yes, it is on the center of the inside ankle - most medial aspect. You will know you have found it because it can be tender or very sore, both signs of imbalance. Just find the sore areas! You will be on the spleen meridian within an inch of the points. Spleen 3, 4, 5, and 6 are involved, 3 and 6 being most pertinent. Close counts.
 

CantThink

Senior Member
Messages
800
Location
England, UK
Sorry I missed this question, and I actually just did all the hormone tests with my Endo (who treats my thyroid issue) and he said all my female hormones were normal for my age. I don't have the labs in front of me but do have a copy and can check if you tell me what to look for specifically.

Yes - did you get estrogen done on day 3 of your cycle (which would likely be during your period) and progesterone on day 21 of your cycle? Assuming yes to that, then you want to look where in the range your progesterone is and where in the range your estrogen is. If your progesterone was in the lower end of the range and estrogen in mid to high end of the range then that might not be helping matters.

Re - Thyroid: I have noticed a lot of women with thyroid problems on the thyroid forums I've been on seem to have worse cramps and either heavier or scantier flow than is perhaps average/normal. I definitely seemed to worsen in that respect once I developed autoimmune thyroid disease (hyper and then hypo). So perhaps that's a factor too.
 

Gingergrrl

Senior Member
Messages
16,171
@Sasha my ob-gyn (I guess in the UK, you call them gynae?) has been useless in regard to this issue and at the most will say to take Advil which is an NSAID and to be strong enough to help, I would have to take a huge amount which when I tried 20 yrs ago (different ob-gyn who was equally useless) almost gave me an ulcer.

@Sushi your castor oil instructions were beyond my current brain capacity to follow but that is b/c of me not you! Is there such a thing in the US as a castor oil pack that is ready made where you don't need the plastic table cloth, towels, flannel, etc?

@GracieJ it is weird but six inches up my ankle, it is sore like you said! I am okay right now from pain pill but will try this as soon as it comes back.
 

Sushi

Moderation Resource Albuquerque
Messages
19,935
Location
Albuquerque
Is there such a thing in the US as a castor oil pack that is ready made where you don't need the plastic table cloth, towels, flannel, etc?
Sorry, I don't know, but if there is such a thing someone here will surely know about it!:lol:

You could simplify it even more as all you need is castor oil and heat, and... not to make too much of a mess! :cautious: So you could put castor oil on a washcloth, put any old towel under and over you and even use a hot water bottle on top. The reason for the other things is that castor oil is hard to wash out, but with hot water and plenty of detergent, it should work.

Sushi
 

Gingergrrl

Senior Member
Messages
16,171
@CantThink the tests actually were not done on those specific days of my cycle and just on a random day when I did the thyroid and some other tests. Back when I was seeing fertility specialists (a few years ago before I knew I had CFS and was very mildly ill) I did all the tests on the specific days and the numbers were bad (from a fertility perspective.). It kills me to have suffered with cramps for 30 years AND not have been able to get pregnant so all the cramps were for no purpose.

As far as thyroid, I was only diagnosed with Hashimotos at the end of 2013 and it has had no effect on severity of cramps. I take a micro tiny dose of Armour Thyroid and my numbers are perfect. One if the thyroid antibodies is now in the normal range (whereas before both were super high.)

I think my thyroid is better b/c I am also gluten free and taking Selenium. But my thyroid being better has had no impact on the severity of my ME/CFS which is currently the worst it has ever been. And thyroid also has no impact on the cramps.
 

Debbie23

Senior Member
Messages
137
I'm another with endometiosis, diagnosed at 11 and confirmed at 13, so well practiced in vicious periods! It's horrible isn't it? And it does make my ME so much worse as well in all ways. I often wonder if it's what is going on in the immune system, but I'm not clever enough to do more than wonder! ;)

I agree that one of the best things is a heat pad. My electric heat pad is used daily, I can adjust the heat and use it for ME pains as well as period pain. I love it. An electric pad is one of the best investments I've made. One thing that used to help when I was physically able to do so was getting in a warm bath, that helped with cramps although hot water makes my heart pound and makes me feel weak and dizzy. You can't win sometimes can you? But the heat pad is a good alternative. :)

I'm sorry you can't take much to help you. That must be awful, I hope it gets better for you soon.
 
Messages
3,263
@Gingergrrl, I don't suppose you want to take the contraceptive pill, its the only way I've found of really reducing the pain. My daughter has terrible menstrual nausea and vomiting, and is now doing this. Her doc also suggested she take the series of sugar pills - the ones you're supposed to take once a month to bring on a period - only once every three months. She said there was no health risk involved with this. Its changed my daughter's life, she was losing a lot of school time - now fewer periods, and when they do come, they're lighter.

But of course, you might have lots of good reasons for not going down the hormone route.

Can you take aspirin? Its supposed to be a prostaglandin inhibitor too.

Hope this isn't TMI, but having an orgasm helps relieve my pain too. Its supposed to increase blood flow to the area or something. Trouble is, you feel so awful its the last thing on your mind. I guess to use that treatment you'd have to act as soon as you felt the first tiny pangs of pain, else its too late!
 

WillowJ

คภภเє ɠรค๓թєl
Messages
4,940
Location
WA, USA
I had terrible, horrible cramps in high school [edit, no scratch that-- as a young teen] (a common problem for DES granddaughers, apparently), and got them straightened out. When the problem returns, I use the same solution. Unfortunately, it's already been suggested and wasn't right for @Gingergrrl . Might help someone else reading, though.

Do you know what your progesterone and estrogen levels are like?

In my case, my estrogen stays high and my progesterone is low. My gyno knew this without testing [edit: because of other dysmenorrheal symptoms not discussed here], but another doc ran the tests (which made me happier to know rather than guess). So I use a progesterone supplement, off and on. [edit, this is the modern story--I think it was tested when I was a teen, too]

The hospital where I had the testing done (at their walk-in lab) started sending me postcards about pregnancy, so I called them up and told them this was inappropriate and to stop sending these.

I have heard of using herbal remedies and know someone who uses one with Dong Quai for bad cramps, but I haven't tried it myself. Caveat emptor and all that.
 
Last edited:

WillowJ

คภภเє ɠรค๓թєl
Messages
4,940
Location
WA, USA
@Gingergrrl, I don't suppose you want to take the contraceptive pill, its the only way I've found of really reducing the pain. My daughter has terrible menstrual nausea and vomiting, and is now doing this. Her doc also suggested she take the series of sugar pills - the ones you're supposed to take once a month to bring on a period - only once every three months. She said there was no health risk involved with this. Its changed my daughter's life, she was losing a lot of school time - now fewer periods, and when they do come, they're lighter.

My sister does this. I forgot. It helps a lot for her. She has endo.
 

Kati

Patient in training
Messages
5,497
I have a question for the women on PR (sorry guys who may read this :eek:) re: techniques for treating severe menstrual cramps.

I have had cramps for 30 years now but they vary in severity from mild to feeling like you are being stabbed with a knife and you would rather die than endure the pain. At the very worst, it makes me throw up and I get close to fainting from the pain.

I cannot find any correlation between the mild months and severe months but it does not seem worse or better pre vs. post ME/CFS.

This morning I had the most severe cramps in at least two years which is bad timing b/c I am coping with yet another bad reaction to a new medication (not that there is ever good timing for this!)

There are only two things that help me: pain medication and lying on a scalding hot heating pad.

I was wondering if anyone else has found anything other than those two things to be helpful? I want to hear it all no matter how ridiculous it sounds b/c every time I go through this I end up with worse PEM and it lowers my functioning which is already about as low as can be without being completely bed bound.

Thank you in advance and sorry to the men!!!
Hi @Gingergrrl, I too have had 3long decades of men trial cramps, and it's pretty bad and it also makes me throw up at times, most of it was in my teens. I have found that a bigger dose of ibuprofen has helped tremendously especially if taken as soon as the period have started, and if you know it's about to start, take them right away, and continue every 6-12 hours (as recommended according to dosage) I have taken 600 mg every 12 hours as of late and it has helped me. The trick is to get ahead of the pain. I don't have a favourite brand, just the generic will do.
 

Gingergrrl

Senior Member
Messages
16,171
Hi @Gingergrrl, I too have had 3long decades of men trial cramps, and it's pretty bad and it also makes me throw up at times, most of it was in my teens.

@Kati I bolded the words above from your post b/c I was not sure if it was a typo or you were making a joke but in either case, I LOVE IT :heart: and men trial cramps made me LOL :trophy: (sorry guys!)
 

taniaaust1

Senior Member
Messages
13,054
Location
Sth Australia
It is very common for ME to make period pain worst... another horrid symptom we have.

Mine was like you describe.. some months great, others really really painful.. no pattern at all to knowing when I was going to get a bad month with it. It can get so painful I feel like Im going to throw up. I almost fainted while driving one time due to it (had to dangerously pull over as I was going to faint). The pain is so bad that it radiates all over the place.. eg down the front of my legs to my knees.

Extremely hot water bottles (both on my front and on my lower back) to the point my skin would end up bright red and almost blistered was the first way I dealt with this. I used to also take panadol and asprin at the same too too with the hot water bottles.

Still had bad months with all that and wanted more pain relief but all those things together did help (the very hot heat helped far more then the pain killers. I couldnt get much relief in bath thou as I couldnt have it hot enough thou it a wee bit.

.......

Interestingly a chiropractor could fix my menstral pain instantly (that was where I was headed to at the time I almost fainted while driving.. usually would never try to drive in that much pain but I was in desperate need to get to that chiro to have my pain fixed. I was crying with it as I drove).

What he did was get me to lay on my back and then in area between my pelvic bones at front of me, he spread his hand out and dig his fingers into that area extremely deep and grabbed like organs in my lower body. He actually like lifted them up and that took all the pain instantly away (I couldnt believe it.. it was amazing. I went from crying to no pain at all).

He then held the area up (still like pulling out) with a gentle pressure for about 5 mins before letting it go. No pain at all for 12-24hrs after that and by that time the most painful time of my period that month was over. Ive tried many times to grab myself like he did but I get get my fingers like dug into my lower abdomen enough to grab all the area and pull on it like he did.

.....

A female doctor (guy doctors didnt care less when I said I was in severe pain with my period).. and put me onto mefenamic acid. That didnt do much at all by itself so I asked the chemist if I could take another pain killer with that so then started talking pandol as well. Even with both those things, thou they helped only about 70% on a very bad month so I still was ending up some months with pain.

(Mefanmic acid needs to be taken from several days before period and probably why it didnt work well for me is due to having PCOS, I never knew when my period would come).
.....................

I do have a possible answer for you here Gingergrrl. Calcium!! Calicum can help PMS and period pain (there has been quite a few studies done on this). 1200mg calicum I think may be the dose? (you may need to look up one of the studies for amount to check).

I dont know how fast it works for others but for me when I first started taking this I was getting issues every month to some degree of pain or another. It took daily taking for 2-3 months before I suddenly started getting pain free periods (it needs to be taken throughout the whole months, not just with periods). After maybe a year of pain free periods while taking it, I went off of it only to get period pain back that month. Once again it took 2months of daily taking before the good affects of it kicked in and suddenly I was having pain free periods.

I think I took it daily at that point for about a year before II got slack with taking it and missed some days of taking in a month and, once again.. I'd get period pain. In my case I needed to take it daily all the time.. so I could have pain free periods.

Calcium daily may be the answer for you.

Someone sent me a pm only last week as they had read old posts of mine at this forum about this and it had helped them too.
 
Last edited:

CantThink

Senior Member
Messages
800
Location
England, UK
[
It kills me to have suffered with cramps for 30 years AND not have been able to get pregnant so all the cramps were for no purpose.

As far as thyroid, I was only diagnosed with Hashimotos at the end of 2013 and it has had no effect on severity of cramps. I take a micro tiny dose of Armour Thyroid and my numbers are perfect. One if the thyroid antibodies is now in the normal range (whereas before both were super high.)

I think my thyroid is better b/c I am also gluten free and taking Selenium. But my thyroid being better has had no impact on the severity of my ME/CFS which is currently the worst it has ever been. And thyroid also has no impact on the cramps.

I totally understand about the pain/suffering you go through with your menstruation versus inability to have a child (as having a child would at least make the pain worth something). It is like nature being cruel, especially when you see girls and women who get pregnant without meaning to or when not even wanting children.

I think for the women with thyroid problems that have experienced worsening of menstrual issues it's probably when they are undiagnosed or under treated. In my case it has been both. I've never had so-called normal periods though so I just seemed to enter a new version of hell (lol!).

If you haven't already been evaluated for endometriosos, you might want to look into it. There is some co-existing link or increased risk for having it if you have M.E. and/or Hashis, and I think vice versa. You mohjy also.want to get your hormone levels tested on the correct days. If you do opt to see OB/GYN about potential endometriosis, I suggest looking for a doctor that specialises in endometriosis and pelvic pain. They should treat you seriously and give you more options than just OTC weakish painkillers. It is worth them checking for other causes such as cysts and fibroids etc.

Re: thyroid treatment - the same here..
In that despite treatment (I'm on 3 grains), I'm as sick with M.E. as ever and progressively have worsened over the last probably 13 years. I did have a brief respite from the progression with LDN, but like Toni Bernhardt talks about in her book when she tries various treatments that initially work, after 8 months it stopped working for me.

I came off it and will retry in the spring to see if I can trick my body into thinking it's never had it. (Hopeful, me?!) I think for me the thyroid disease is a separate entity - as by the time I got diagnosed with it, I'd had M.E. for around 19 years. The thyroid presented its own set of symptoms and they have improved somewhat since being on thyroid hormone and I hope will continue to improve. I also eat gluten free as I'm completely intolerant to it, but could do with conscientiously taking selenium (I've been lax lately). There's always so many things to remember!
 

CantThink

Senior Member
Messages
800
Location
England, UK
In my case, my estrogen stays high and my progesterone is low. My gyno knew this without testing [edit: because of other dysmenorrheal symptoms not discussed here], but another doc ran the tests (which made me happier to know rather than guess). So I use a progesterone supplement, off and on. [edit, this is the modern story--I think it was tested when I was a teen, too]

Mine is out of sync too. My progesterone is low and estrogen normal. Even with estrogen normal it makes the ratio between the hormones out of balance and therefore, estrogen dominant.

In endometriosis doctors say the estrogen feeds (for want of a better word) the tissue that is endometriosis and causes it to grow/spread. So a progesterone only pill (POP) or the mirena coil which secretes a low dose of synthetic progesterone are treatment options. Obviously lessening or stopping periods is great as well from the pain and suffering perspective. The more periods a lady with endometriosis has, the more it can have the opportunity to grow apparently. So even if it's surgically dealt with, the key is to limit periods and to balance out estrogen by adding the progesterone. I'm currently trying the mirena coil. I have to wait 6 months from insertion before knowing if it's right for me as it takes a long time to settle.
 

Mary

Moderator Resource
Messages
17,334
Location
Southern California
Some of the B vitamins might help - see http://www.livestrong.com/article/94683-menstrual-cramps-vitamins/

I was especially thinking of B6 because it's supposed to be effective for morning sickness. yes, I know that's totally different than cramps, but it's hormonal-related. I think B6 is helping me with sleep, much to my surprise. I'm just learning how many different processes B6 affects in the body.

Anyways the article above talks about B6 and B1 and B3 all helping with cramps. I don't know if it works but don't think it would hurt to try -
 

Debbie23

Senior Member
Messages
137
@CantThink the tests actually were not done on those specific days of my cycle and just on a random day when I did the thyroid and some other tests. Back when I was seeing fertility specialists (a few years ago before I knew I had CFS and was very mildly ill) I did all the tests on the specific days and the numbers were bad (from a fertility perspective.). It kills me to have suffered with cramps for 30 years AND not have been able to get pregnant so all the cramps were for no purpose.

It's rotten isn't it? I can understand that added pain totally. I'm lucky in that I'm very close to my nieces and nephews but I do understand this pain completely. :(:hug:

I agree with others about the pill, I've stopped being able to take it but while I could it did help. I saw a few gynae specialists who told me to take it continually without a break so my periods stopped altogether. That never works for me at all, my periods just don't stop at all when I take it like that. But I know that works for some people. Taking it normally, with a set cycle, did help, however when I was able to take it.

I also forgot to mention that I fully agree that mefenamic acid can really help, and I too was told that ideally you need to be taking it a few days before your periods actually start. I don't know why, I've had doctors me really rude about it and so has my mum who is the same, but I can take that even though I can't take ibuprofen by tablets. Maybe I'm just weird but I can cope with that but not ibuprofen, especially if I make sure I have something in my stomach.

I do understand why you are wary of medications when you've had bad reactions though. I was put on some tablets like Gestrinone Along with others that did similar things, when I was first diagnosed. The side effects were dreadful and some of them seem to have been permanent. I don't remember this I was so ill at the time with my ME, but my mum does, but apparently I was even put on the wrong tablets for a year by the hospital, they only got sorted when my GP realised apparently. But I do understand being wary about medication as a result. You never know what will make you have bad side effects when it works well for others like this, I'm sure plenty of people are helped by things like the tablets I was on, but it doesn't help to know that, if it makes you poorly! and of course you can't know that until you try it! So I do understand your point of view.

I don't know what my hormone levels are. I'd like to find out for the sake of interest.
 

waiting

Senior Member
Messages
463
If you already take a magnesium supplement, try doubling the dosage a few days before you are due. (Magnesium with malic acid preferably). Magnesium levels drop at this time.

That plus taking a Tylenol at the first sign, then every 4-6 hours.

Good luck!
 

belize44

Senior Member
Messages
1,662
I have had an hysterectomy so this is no longer a problem. But I can clearly remember the horrible symptoms that led up to it! Things that I have heard help wit menstrual pain are Chinese preparations, one of which is called Yunnan Paiyao. You can find this online or in a Chinese grocery store. It can't be taken long term but helps a to loosen things in the uterus. One of the reasons cramps happen is that your uterus is contracting to expel clots. The herb I mentioned helps things flow easier so that you don't have to clot and cramp as much. If you Google it, you will find that it helps with an amazing amount of things. I have used it after surgery and accelerated the healing process amazingly. Excellent for getting teeth pulled, too. Another herb that helps regulate things is called Maca root. My daughter takes this. I hope this helps!