MS is still being claimed as partially psychogenic!

[NK17]

If you have the power you don't get to somatize squat, if you're subject to the power (could be any power) you can easily get to "somatize" a lot.

 

[NK17]

So many stories of human suffering. In most families there are stories of abuses and more frequently than not, women get the worst treatment and suffer the worst consequences.

When we fight for ourselves, we fight to get the truth out for all PWME and we fight for all the ones who have preceded us, no matter what gender, race, creed they belong/belonged to.

The above thought really helps me ground my fight.

I fight for my great-grandmother who died after having to seek an illegal abortion and I certainly fight for my grandmother who miraculously survived brutal radiation therapy in the '70, in order to cure her lymphoma.

 

[kisekishiawase]

wth is this. isnt this just making it worse
doctors will just prescribe psychotherapy. many ill victims will be poisonous by it and let their real sickness grow to destroy/kill them.

now what do we say when doctor use this theory.
are there any paper , prove, research to contradict it?

A few case studies of Freud's known patients:

1. A morphine addict(Fleischl):

Freud told him to take cocaine to cure his addictions. He became addicted to cocaine as well and died a few years later. Freud considered him to be one of his success stories.

2. A patient with epilepsy(Anna O.):

Freud claimed his friend cured her with his talking cure which led to the discovery of psychoanalysis. In reality she worsened so much from the treatment that she ended up in an insane asylum. Freud considered her to be a succcess story.

3. A young female(Eckstein):

Freud recommended removing an inner part of her nose surgically to treat her neurosis. She almost bled to death. To save her a part of her bone had to be removed leaving her permanently disfigured. Freud blamed her psyche for the bleeding claiming it was entirely caused by her mind.

4. Female

This was one of the few cases where a combination of hypnosis and psychoanalysis seemed to work and lifted her depression. In reality the improvement was caused by a beginning manic episode. The patient developed full blown mania and had to be transferred to an institution. Freud continued to treat her giving her various drugs and substances to treat her psychosis. Unfortunately he overdosed her with sedatives and she died from organ failure.

5. Russian aristocrat (Pankejeff)

In psychoanalytic circles this is considered to be one of Freud's biggest success stories. While undergoing prolongued psychoanalytic treatment the wealthy patient voiced concern about the politic situation in russia and felt he needed to return home to protect his fortune. Freud advised him against doing so telling him he still had many issues that needed to looked at. Pankejeff stayed in Vienna and lost his fortune. Freud claimed to have cured him completely but it turns out that Pankejeff continued with Psychoanalysis for over 70 years without any improvement of his mental state.

6. Female

One of Freud's friends wife became seriously depressed. His friend wanted her to get treated by Freud. It is not documented if she was ever treated by him. She committed suicide by jumping out of the window of the house in which Freud had his practice.

7. Wealthy industrialist (Dr. Frink)

Dr. Frink found it hard to accept Freud’s diagnosis of latent homosexuality. Freud told him: “Your complaint that you cannot grasp your homosexuality implies that you are not yet aware of your phantasy of making me a rich man,” “If matters turn out all right, let us change this imaginary gift into a real contribution to the Psychoanalytic Funds.”

This is from a total of maybe 10-15 patient that i could find There is not one single cure among them.

Freud was aware that he could not cure his patients while he talk about dramatic cures in public.

In a letter to a friend he wrote:

Patients are nothing but riff-raff. The only useful purposes they serve are to help us earn a living and to provide learning material. In any case, we cannot help them.

To sum it up if(assuming 13 patients):

Killed by Freud: 7.6%
Almost killed: 7.6%
Most likely contributed to death: 15%
Left permanently disfigured: 7.6%
Lost fortune: 7.6%
Severely harmed: 38%
Cure rate 0%

Keep in mind that Freud would destroy a lot of his manuscripts and many of his letters are locked away and not open to the public so some of the worst stuff might never be known.

Now this is the kind of "science" the Kings College likes and that somatisation disorders are based on? What a sad joke.

Anno O, the case that made Freud famous, was identified by a medical historian. She has extensive medical records. She was never cured. She was a drug addict and had many other problems. The science of the day had not advanced enough to figure out her issues ... and the psychogenic fallacy rests on claiming psychogenic cause if a problem is not understood.

Sadly, they could just say "we do not know". It would be honest. It would maintain trust with patients. It would not lead to potentially dangerous experimental treatments. It would be both ethical and moral.

I still have not found a good account of the psychobabble history of MS. Does anyone have a link to one?

is there a paper for this?

 

[chipmunk1]

wth is this. isnt this just making it worse

Yes much worse. Without psychogenic theory you are sick you suffer but you would still have access to medical care, might qualify for disability payments, get support and encouragement from family and friends. You still have some dignity and self-respect left.

With the psychogenic model it will be harder and harder to access proper medical care.
Friends and family will turn their back on you and attack you instead of supporting you. You might not get any financial support and you may end up homeless. You will constantly try to change your behaviour and fail to improve your condition and yet keep trying because you are so desperate for relief. While you get sicker and sicker you will blame yourself for your misfortune and lose all dignity and self-respect in the process.

now what do we say when doctor use this theory.

I don't think much can be done. You could as well try to argue with a religious fanatic about the non-existence of god.. it's hopeless in most cases.

not all doctors are psych cultists though. switching doctors might often be the best option.

are there any paper , prove, research to contradict it?

there are some studies that contradict it probably but too many poorly done that pretend the theories are valid.

You can keep looking and collecting them. Since you are just a layperson(i assume you are not a doctor or nurse) they will tend to ignore you no matter how well the research is done.

If you educate yourself on psychosomatic theories you might learn how they think and what not to say and what symptoms might lead to a somatisation disorder diagnosis.

 

[jimells]

now what do we say when doctor use this theory.

YOU'RE FIRED!!!

are there any paper , prove, research to contradict it?

Don't bother. Doctors with this attitude are impervious to evidence. You might as well show the papers to your dog.

 

[beaker]

HIPPOCRATIC OATH: MODERN VERSION
I swear to fulfill, to the best of my ability and judgment, this covenant:

I will respect the hard-won scientific gains of those physicians in whose steps I walk, and gladly share such knowledge as is mine with those who are to follow.

I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures [that] are required, avoiding those twin traps of overtreatment and therapeutic nihilism.

I will remember that there is art to medicine as well as science, and that warmth, sympathy, and understanding may outweigh the surgeon's knife or the chemist's drug.

I will not be ashamed to say "I know not," nor will I fail to call in my colleagues when the skills of another are needed for a patient's recovery.

I will respect the privacy of my patients, for their problems are not disclosed to me that the world may know. Most especially must I tread with care in matters of life and death. If it is given me to save a life, all thanks. But it may also be within my power to take a life; this awesome responsibility must be faced with great humbleness and awareness of my own frailty. Above all, I must not play at God.

I will remember that I do not treat a fever chart, a cancerous growth, but a sick human being, whose illness may affect the person's family and economic stability. My responsibility includes these related problems, if I am to care adequately for the sick.

I will prevent disease whenever I can, for prevention is preferable to cure.

I will remember that I remain a member of society, with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.

If I do not violate this oath, may I enjoy life and art, respected while I live and remembered with affection thereafter. May I always act so as to preserve the finest traditions of my calling and may I long experience the joy of healing those who seek my help.

—Written in 1964 by Louis Lasagna, Academic Dean of the School of Medicine at Tufts University, and used in many medical schools today.

 

[Ecoclimber]

Considering the fact that researchers have made a significant breakthrough on treatng RRMS form of MS with an actual medical procedure and medicine

Experimental MS treatment halts disease ‘in its tracks’
By JoNel Aleccia Seattle Times health reporter

A Seattle man is among two dozen MS patients in a promising clinical trial that found high-dose immune-suppressing drugs and stem-cell transplants may stop the progress of the disease in those who've failed usual care....

....Kearny is one of two dozen patients enrolled in the five-year clinical trial that gets its catchy acronym, HALT-MS, from a long title: “High-Dose Immunosuppressive Therapy and Autologous Hematopoietic Cell Transplantation for Relapsing-Remitting Multiple Sclerosis.”

....A three-year interim report published recently in the journal JAMA Neurology offered positive results: Nearly 80 percent of those enrolled, including Kearny, not only survived but also showed no increase in disability, relapse of MS symptoms or new brain lesions. Few serious complications or unexpected side effects were reported.

But then again, a course in talk therapy, CBT and GET is still a lot cheaper to alleviate his 'false sickness belief' and will save money for the medical and disability insurance industries...sarcasm intended.

 

[SK2018]

Lus

Oh dear, psychogenic medicine is really about the gaps in knowledge. Its STILL being claimed that MS has psychogenic components.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life...hen-the-mind-causes-real-pain/article9265237/

​

(My bolding)

I do note that "functional neurological disorders" is becoming a common buzzphrase used in the UK according to the reports I have been getting.

Evidence for psychobabble is like the man on the stairs, who wasn't there:

The other day upon the stair,
I saw a man who wasn't there,
He wasn't there again today,
My gosh I wish he'd go away!

This started as a post at: http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...gue-syndrome-a-meme-18-june-2014.30944/page-8

We need to understand what happened to psychogenic claims in MS, and are still happening, its the best example we have of what is going on in ME but with the perspective of maybe forty years advances in medical science over what ME has.

Idiotic considering it's well proven to be T cell mediated auto immunity,seems the UK is not the place to have a Neuro immune disease