Malaise - How do you deal with it?

[Sherlock]

I would be interested to know with people's PEM how long after exertion does it hit? I see with most people it is instant and they feel fatigued and other symptoms within hours but I am wondering if it could take a day, days or even a week before the PEM effects kick in...

Next day. Not like ordinarily so for a normal person, but with mainly the poisonedness and the brain fog.

 

[Stretched]

@Sherlock. Good that you’re back fine tuning. Sounds like you’ve learned to manage some of the challenges of this DD. Don’t you wish you knew what it is - that would be a real help in moving faster, at your chosen speed.

 

[Sushi]

I had an interesting experience with PEM yesterday. I do a light pilates class once a week but yesterday got over-confident and used too much weight. I "got that feeling" afterwards that clued me in that I was in for a bad case of PEM the next day. My whole body was aching and feeling plain old sick. I took an Epsom Salts bath in the evening but instead of the usual half hour, I stayed in an hour and slowly felt all that sick feeling dissipate. I hope it works next time too--but no telling. Has anyone else had this experience?

 

[Sherlock]

@Sherlock. Good that you’re back fine tuning. Sounds like you’ve learned to manage some of the challenges of this DD. Don’t you wish you knew what it is - that would be a real help in moving faster, at your chosen speed.

Thank you, @Stretched. Yep, I agree with you that understanding is the key to progress. Nobody is likely coming over the hill to save anybody here, so we have to save ourselves - with a little help and info

The thing that stands out to me about PEM is that it can come from physical stress, which is very different than emotional stress and even more different than just mental concentration (such as reading intently). Yet all three still lead to the same bad result. How can that be?

Then I stumbled on Theoharides talking about how a certain stress hormone* can get released by all three circumstances. It gets released at nerve endings by order of the brain, and ends up putting the nearby mast cells into a sort of primed mode. Primed to explode and release their large assortment of warfare chemicals.

So then, there is the problem of why that effect doesn't just die out on its own. Maybe it's because the mast cells get each other revved up in a self-perpetuating cycle (the paracrine effect). Some of us break the cycle more easily, while others get stuck in the vicious cycle for a long time because they don't generate the chemical signals to actively break the cycle. Those chemical signals would come under the catchall term of 'anti-inflammatory'.

How does all that sound to you?

 

[Sherlock]

@Sherlock. Good that you’re back fine tuning. Sounds like you’ve learned to manage some of the challenges of this DD. Don’t you wish you knew what it is - that would be a real help in moving faster, at your chosen speed.

By the way, @Stretched, do you get a bad reaction even from listening to talks on complicated topics? Or just reading?

 

[Sherlock]

I had an interesting experience with PEM yesterday. I do a light pilates class once a week but yesterday got over-confident and used too much weight. I "got that feeling" afterwards that clued me in that I was in for a bad case of PEM the next day. My whole body was aching and feeling plain old sick. I took an Epsom Salts bath in the evening but instead of the usual half hour, I stayed in an hour and slowly felt all that sick feeling dissipate. I hope it works next time too--but no telling. Has anyone else had this experience?

Wow, that is very interesting, @Sushi. When I first got sick, I had a headache for about a week straight. I had hardly ever had headaches before, in all of life. I got hold of a bottle of Magnesium citrate and carefully sipped more and more over an evening. The headache was then gone.

I always have Mg powder on hand ever since. I also used to make it a point to have seeds often, I need to get back to that. I'm going to have some Mg before lights out tonight, after reading what you said It doesn't seem to help with insomnia for me but still I need to take the "relaxing mineral" more often.

 

[Sushi]

I'm going to have some Mg before lights out tonight

Funny thing is that I take a hefty dose orally each night and it doesn't have this effect.

 

[Sherlock]

Funny thing is that I take a hefty dose orally each night and it doesn't have this effect.

Ohhh, you did say it was a whole hour long bath, so maybe you absorbed a very large amount that would've caused a laxative effect if taken orally?

Anyway, it was excellent that you knew instinctively what to do. The lower mind often knows

What's your theory on why the transdermal Mg worked? Some direct muscle effect? Increased vasodilation that flushed the muscles? The Mg was used to make lots of mineral buffers to combat acidity from the workout?

 

[Sushi]

Anyway, it was excellent that you knew instinctively what to do. The lower mind often knows

I'd like to give credit to instinct, but it was actually that I was reading a good book and just kept soaking!

What's your theory on why the transdermal Mg worked? Some direct muscle effect? Increased vasodilation that flushed the muscles? The Mg was used to make lots of mineral buffers to combat acidity from the workout?

I wish I knew, but it was definitely a different effect than oral. I could feel the pre-PEMs symptoms just melt away.

 

[Stretched]

By the way, @Stretched, do you get a bad reaction even from listening to talks on complicated topics? Or just reading?

At present I’m vegging, reading a NYT bestseller, ‘Circe’ indulging in Greek mytholog which your prose reminds me of. I would say with my veggie state of rest of this sort is holding in abeyance any stages of PEM. Maybe this is a time contrived, unwittingly as a better way - for now.... .

 

[Wolfcub]

I am a new member here although I have been on these forums a lot over the years I decided to finally sign up! I have had CFS symptoms for around 15 years now, It started when I was 21. 4 months ago I had a major virus, not exactly sure what it was, It was believed to be Ross river virus (mosquito virus) along with vertigo and it totally dropped me even further down than I already was. Since then I have developed worsening fatigue, depression and anxiety but the main symptom i find extremely hard to deal with is malaise.

Typically if I push too hard or have a stressful period of time now I get malaise for about 7 days, it's best described for me as a flu without the flu symptoms, an uncomfortable feeling, a sick almost poisoned feeling that cannot be pinpointed to anywhere on the body in particular. I can deal with fatigue, depression and anxiety but the malaise is really hard to handle and really pushes me mentally to the point of despair.

Malaise seems to be unique to each person but I was just interested to know if anyone has any methods of how to deal with it? and what has worked for others to lessen the feeling or shorten how long it lasts? Mine does not seem to respond to any treatment I have tried so far it just randomly settles down after a week or so. Any info would be much appreciated.

That is exactly what I get @drewf2 Only I haven't had it for as long as you. I have had it for only months.
Malaise. Just a general indefinable not-well feeling. Slightly "fluey". The fluey-ness has subside a bit recently and given way to a weariness with an internal tremor (the same kind of feeling you get when you've held your body in a stress position too long) slight aches over my eye, (which always seem to show me a red flag. They are not there when I am starting to feel better) and just this vague not well sensation. But yes it's malaise.

How do I deal with it? I can be a bit unpredicable in that respect. I can sometimes feel even worse if I lie on the floor. Sometimes I can even feel a little bit better if I get moving gently doing something physical and useful...but definitely not too much and it has to be pleasant -like a gentle walk in the orchard nearby because I love that place. Just to get my feet on grass, smell the wildflowers and hear the birds....you know?

I don't know. I am still learning how to manage this alien feeling which has come over me.
Sometimes I'm concerned that I may be prolonging the malaise by simply not lying down and staying there! But like I said I can feel a little better to get moving. And then another day, that is the last thing I need to do! And I can feel a "no" from my body as soon as I take a few steps.
It's frustrating because for me there seems like no failsafe method to feel better. It's unpredictable.

Eating -whether or not I have much appetite -seems to help me a bit. But then again that might be the wrong thing for someone else. But I think I can go too long without food and be detached from it sometimes owing to lack of normal appetite, and probably need more food than I used to. I usually feel stronger after food.

But there are times when rest is the best thing and though it's boring I feel a lot better by the end of the day or two days later. I listen to instincts I suppose.

Yeah....PEM. With me I can sometimes feel a lot better and do stuff I probably shouldn't do. That can even go on for a few days and make me think I am getting better! Then 3 days later -wham! Bad again. So PEM for me comes in a delayed way.

 

[Haru]

That's interesting because I have experienced Herx reactions to many things that I didn't think would give me a reaction and this could quite well be happening from something I am taking! also my liver bilirubin levels are always sky high, doctors say Gilberts but I am not convinced so it could also be detox pathways as you say. Luckily enough my hair tests show no heavy metals surprisingly because I was a boilermaker welder for years. Thanks for the info on these threads I will look into them, I will give BCAA's a go and see if it works, glutamine I have had a good response from in the past also. I think I tried to return to physical activity too soon, Ross River Virus can affect regular healthy people for 6 months or more so I was always going to be much worse and take a longer recovery time. My problem is I had a protocol that worked fine for my previous state and got me through the day, since the virus that protocol is no longer working and causing this malaise so I have to re design a new one!

Did you happen to find a protocol that works ?