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Larkin: The interface between chronic fatigue syndrome and depression

V

Valentijn

Senior Member
Messages
15,786
A.B. said:
I think what Larkin et. al. might be seeing is patients grieving over having their life destroyed by a highly impairing illness. Over time these patients will find their balance again despite ongoing illness. So early on in the illness, patients might be an emotional wreck, but later on they will have nearly normal mental health despite still being as disabled as before.
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I disagree ... I think @Woolie is correct, and this comes down to the inappropriate use of questionnaires. The mental health section of the SF36 is quite good - it bluntly asks patients how they feel and if it's their mental health which is impacting their life.

The questionnaires used by the incompetent quacks, on the other hand, ask patients how they behave, and assume the entire cause of behavior is mental health. Don't go out and party, or enjoy reading books anymore? You're depressed. Can't go shopping by yourself, or have trouble sleeping? You're anxious.

It comes down to inappropriate research practices and equating physical and cognitive disability with a mood disorder. Larkin & Martin are either too stupid to know the difference, or they're also willing to exploit patients for their own gain.
 
Jan

Jan

Senior Member
Messages
458
Location
Devon UK
Molly98 said:
Go Jan! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
@Jan it seems what is far more common with the disease and more worthy of further study is the phenomenon of situational Tourettes which afflicts so many of us whenever we come across such bullshit psychobabble or as me and @Countrygirl were discussing yesterday the names of Wessely, White, Crawley, Chalder and co seem to bring on such episodes too.
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:rofl::rofl::rofl: Brilliant diagnosis, that is totally correct! Every time I read one of these studies I just want to write F Off in huge letters. I've restrained myself up til now, so that the patient's responses appear somewhat more educated and balanced.

Now we have this diagnosis we can all let loose the profanities :jaw-drop::jaw-drop::jaw-drop:
 
Johnskip

Johnskip

Senior Member
Messages
141
Jan said:
:rofl::rofl::rofl: Brilliant diagnosis, that is totally correct! Every time I read one of these studies I just want to write F Off in huge letters. I've restrained myself up til now, so that the patient's responses appear somewhat more educated and balanced.

Now we have this diagnosis we can all let loose the profanities :jaw-drop::jaw-drop::jaw-drop:
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It's not in someone's best interest to tell me they think it is depression causing my symptoms because from my experience and journey it clearly suggest otherwise it's very sad that people think they know what they are talking about when they should be the one going to see a psychiatrist we all know this is a very very very very very tough thing to live with don't mess with me just don't because if you do your not in my life anymore whatsoever it is what gets people family members friends in trouble isn't what they don't know, it's what they know for sure, just aint so
 
Revel

Revel

Senior Member
Messages
641
@Jan, would these "huge letters" suffice? It's even portable, so you can fly it outside whichever Psychology Department is responsible for churning out these pointless and offensive studies, each time they go to print :D:

7747540618_4cb7f4536c_z.jpg
 
Jan

Jan

Senior Member
Messages
458
Location
Devon UK
Maybe we need to hire a plane like this to fly all over the UK, it could generate some good publicity for PACE gate. Patients take drastic measures due to the UK press totally ignoring all the latest studies and articles debunking PACE.

Does anyone know anyone with a plane?
 
Molly98

Molly98

Senior Member
Messages
576
Revel said:
@Jan, would these "huge letters" suffice? It's even portable, so you can fly it outside whichever Psychology Department is responsible for churning out these pointless and offensive studies, each time they go to print :D:

View attachment 20165
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Oooh yes please right over Wessely's Sence about Science talk, anyone got a pilots licence so we can send him an extra special message for when he comes out?
 
CFS_for_19_years

CFS_for_19_years

Hoarder of biscuits
Messages
2,396
Location
USA
Snow Leopard

Snow Leopard

Hibernating
Messages
5,902
Location
South Australia
Some people miss the forest for the trees. Only a minority of patients suffer from depression and treatment/resolution of depression has been repeatedly shown to have no effect on the ME symptoms. This doesn't look like a direct connection, at least in the big picture.

Woolie said:
A lot of the apparent association between CFS and depression may be due to measurement artefact. Our current scales for measuring depression (and even DSM criteria for structured interviews) include items about insomnia, energy levels, etc. Many other items on scales have a loading on physical health (e.g. I don't enjoy going out with my friends any more).
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Yes, there needs to be a popular term for scientists in Latin that means "be careful what you measure". What I learned when studying science is that you cannot assume the results you get are due to the underlying phenomena you wish to measure - even routine experiments will sometimes have fatal errors and can be hard to unwrap the signal from the biases and noise.
 
Riley

Riley

Senior Member
Messages
178
mango said:
Irrespective of the ambiguity regarding aetiology, what is incontrovertible is the experience of significant depression, which often accompanies this most distressing clinical presentation.
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What kind of language is this for a published paper? The whole abstract sounds like it was written by a pretentious high school student.

Second, I don't think the word "incontrovertible" has any place in any scientific paper. Nothing in science is inconcontrovertible.
 
C

char47

Senior Member
Messages
151
mango said:
(CFS) remains a contentious and controversial presentation despite decades of systematic research from a variety of medical specialties and associated disciplines
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reeeallly.... decades of systematic research? really? what planet are you living on?

mango said:
what is incontrovertible is the experience of significant depression, which often accompanies this most distressing clinical presentation
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what is actually incontrovertible is that the relentless perpetuation & promotion of utter bullshit such as the idea that "decades of systematic research" has been carried out & yet hasnt shown much, when in reality major results (relative to the paltry funding) have been uncovered & should have dispensed with any controversy decades ago, & would have if it weren't for the prejudice, arrogance, obduracy & obtuseness of the medical profession. THAT is what is, incontrovertibly, sufficient to make ANYONE depressed!
If said depression were, as you suggest, 'often accompanying' CFS (a notion which i dont believe is supported by the facts), then your running this study in itself, - the very act of your thinking it up & then doing it & us having to read it.... that is whats CAUSING THE F***ING DEPRESSION!!!!

ETA Sorry for the swearing :cautious::redface: The frustration just bubbles over sometimes. :bang-head:
 
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A

ash0787

Senior Member
Messages
308
it can cause physiological depression but it happens so infrequently like less than 10 hours per month and coincides with strong physical symptoms that it seems fair to assume its due to damage to the brain causing temporary imbalances in relevant chemicals, or possibly a self regulatory factor since when people are depressed they might use less energy.
 
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