Invest in ME Conference 12: First Class in Every Way
OverTheHills wraps up our series of articles on this year's 12th Invest in ME International Conference (IIMEC12) in London with some reflections on her experience as a patient attending the conference for the first time.
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Is this a herx reaction... Or a warning?

Discussion in 'The Gut: De Meirleir & Maes; H2S; Leaky Gut' started by Skippa, Jun 9, 2016.

  1. Skippa

    Skippa Anti-BS

    I got hold of some probiotic pills that someone else was using, and thought I'd give them a go.

    Took one a day, today is day 3.

    To put it bluntly, I feel crap. And really low. Low low mood, and sluggish. And back pain. Oh, and the dark bags under my eyes have got much worse.


    So anyways, I can't figure out if this is a herx or a sign that I should stop these things. (I'm gonna stop them for a while anyways).

    The pills contain:

    L. Acidophilus
    B. Bifidum

    Thanks for any inputs :)
    Mel9 likes this.
  2. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

    Northcoast NSW, Australia
    Could be. but you know that.;)
  3. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Senior Member

    Vancouver, British Columbia
    I very much doubt that taking one probiotic pill per day would cause that type of reaction. This is just my opinion, but it seems to me that too many people with CFS/ME have been brain washed into believing that every pill we take, whether probiotics, vitamins/minerals, etc. will either cause a herx reaction or terrible side-effects. Maybe you just don't feel good right now and it has nothing to do with anything you have taken. ;)
    barbc56, Valentijn, justy and 2 others like this.
  4. Living Dead

    Living Dead Senior Member

    It is not a herx. A herxheimer reaction can occur when killing loads of certain types of bacteria, due to the substances the dead bacteria release. It does not occur in response to this or that, such as adding bacteria.

    Either this is a coincidence, or you have a leaky gut and the lactic acid produced by the bacteria is leaking into your bloodstream. (This is the CFS hypothesis of KDM.)

    I would avoid taking this again for a while, and instead look for gut healing treatments, such as glutamine or the low fodmap diet or whatever you think is good for your gut.
    justy and Skippa like this.
  5. renski

    renski Senior Member

    Lactobacillus acidophilus will put me into a dark place (mentally), I don't know if it's because of the lactic acid or because this bacteria (apparently) kills the good e.coli (which I'm already low in). I also have strep overgrowth.

    Have you had a proper gut test done? Because I wouldn't go near probiotics without really knowing whats going on... you can definitely make things worse.. and it might not be temporary. Like after using acidophilus my stool tests started showing an overgrowth of it.. and I barely used any of it. And this test was done months after I'd used the probiotic.
    Skippa likes this.
  6. Skippa

    Skippa Anti-BS

    Ah crap, well, thanks for the inputs.

    I think I'll just stay away from the damned things.

    And keep my fingers crossed that it was just a temp dip.

    Eta: i had a stool test about 15 years ago, and all the tubes up the bum etc, didn't find anything, diagnosed IBS.
  7. wastwater

    wastwater Senior Member

    Maybe try yoghurt,I like Yeo valley taste but it does absolutely nothing for me health wise
    You get a free lucky lid for a chance to win a prize so it could work out well
    Contains live cultures bifidobacterium,lactobacillus bulgaricus and streptococcus thermophilus
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2016
    Skippa likes this.
  8. Justin30

    Justin30 Senior Member

    With all the recent news coming out probiotics in my eyes can have an affect on well being in ME/CFS.

    Warning labels on "All probiootics state if immunocompromised do not take the product"

    This is an immune disease...we know HIV translocation and dybiosis are common in HIV and LPS ad CD14 levels are very high in some. This is proven in academic literature. To add to this they compare the integrity of the epethial lining of the gut to the BBB and likely both become compromised and LPS/endotoxins and neurotoxins from ammonia are able to penetrate the BBB.

    We have one gut expert only in the ME/CFS Dr aresenal....who knows more about gut health but both Ian Lipkin and Simmarone Research, the new awarded NIH trial all mention this issue with the GI tract.

    Several studies are starting to show their face on GUT health and autoimmunity.

    I make my own cultured yogurt with selective probiotic strains and when my Gut got worse I noticed substantial pain in my GI track and feeling unwell inflamed. I tried this for 3 days and scrapped that batch though that same batch before I was fine. My thoughts are dysbiosis the bacteria got into the bloodstream. The culture in the yogurt was very high.

    The bacteria can cause lactic acid build up, ammonia, and die of other strains from what I understand. As well bacterial die off can be reabsorbed by a gut that has been compromised dybiosis.

    If you dont have an expert guiding you and your are one that is not feeling realtively healthy enough to experiment cuation should be taken in my eyes. We as a group at least the more unwell ones tend to be more sensitive.

    On a positive note l. Acidophuuus and Bifidos have been found to be low in a subset of patients.

    Something is going on their but is it the chicken or the egg and how do we fix it is question that needs to be asked and verified.

    I am just regergitating what I know. So take what I say with a grain of salt as I am not a Dr.
    Skippa likes this.

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