Choline on the Brain? A Guide to Choline in Chronic Fatigue Syndrome
http://phoenixrising.me/research-2/the-brain-in-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-mecfs/choline-on-the-brain-a-guide-to-choline-in-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-by-cort-johnson-aug-2005
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intermittent fasting study

Discussion in 'The Gut: De Meirleir & Maes; H2S; Leaky Gut' started by ebethc, Jun 23, 2018.

  1. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    via Rhonda Patrick, PhD. https://www.instagram.com/foundmyfitness/

    https://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/fulltext/S1550-4131(18)30313-9

    Intermittent fasting (every other day) increased gut bacteria diversity and reduced inflammation, demyelination, and axonal damage in multiple sclerosis (MS) animal model. A small pilot trial in humans with MS showed many similar changes to the gut microbiome and blood adipokines such as leptin.
    The effects of fasting on immune cells included a reduction of pro-inflammatory IL-17-producing T cells and increased numbers of T regulatory cells which prevent autoimmunity.

    The small pilot trial in humans showed increased bacteria richness in species that have previously been shown to promote T regulatory cell accumulation in the colon.

    Interestingly, this study did what is called a metagenomic analysis and found that the ketone pathway was enhanced in the gut microbiome by intermittent fasting. This is super interesting because bacteria in the gut normally produce short chain fatty acids and ketones from fermentable fiber but this suggests that the gut microbiome regulates its own ketone body metabolism during fasting!
     

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  2. rel8ted

    rel8ted Senior Member

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    Dr. Black has been recommending fasting to her patients since she watched something on Amazon about it. (I think it was called the power of fasting).
     
  3. Runner5

    Runner5 Senior Member

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    PNW
    Not really sure how it increases microbes when you're starving the poor little critters. I tried it when I was doing Keto, just ended up hugry and fatigued. ;-P (and rashy and my blood sugar just went off the rails) Eh' but I know some people it works for but they still calorie count and diet when the window opens and it seems to work better for men then women. At first when my body was just burning glycogen for fuel it was like - hot tamale! But then it ran out of fuel, I crashed and I lost a lot of muscle, I had dehydration issues and electrolyte imbalances -- it really made me quite ill. At the end of the day I gained 10lbs of pure fat doing keto and IF *shrug* I got my first fat roll on the diet.

    Look up Butter Bob on YouTube, I just love Butter Bob, I don't eat like he does but he's a cool dude.
     
  4. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    Yeah, i didn't get that either... Maybe some critters don't feed off food, or don't feed off fermenting food???

    I do 16:8 fasting.... IOW, I eat calories within an 8 hour window... this gives my GI a chance to rest, and it's not hard. Also, 100 calories or less is acceptable outside the 8 hour window.. for example, I drink coffee w cream and eat a little grapefruit for breakfast, then eat lunch and dinner in the 8 hour window... easy! this is contrary to the "keep your blood sugar up" by eating small meals frequently credo... I never felt great on that and my gut was bloated all the time - due to multiple things - but I do feel better when I can give my GI a break.

    this just came out, too, if you want to lose weight this is a good plan.
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/06/180618113038.htm
     
    Learner1 and Moof like this.
  5. Carnation4000

    Carnation4000

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    I've been doing Intermittent Fasting (usually about 16:8 to 18:6) for about 7 months on the advice of my Naturopath, and I am so very grateful, thankful, happy to have found this. Losing weight has been almost impossible for about 20 years (I'm almost 60). I'm MTHFR positive and always seem to be dealing with some weird something to include fatigue, joint pain, insomnia, etc. But I have always worked out regularly and eaten pretty healthy.

    Since IF, I've easily lost 20 lbs, seen my blood sugar and A1C go from always a little high to completely normal. My CRP went from high to normal range. I'm not hungry, not cranky or miserable. My fatigue is better but still there. My blood sugar stays balanced. Abdominal bloating is much less. I know IF is not for everyone. After all, we all have different genetics. But it has been an almost miracle for me.

    Also want to say that compared to calorie counting and restrictive diets, IF is easy peasy. I don't end up craving anything weird or feeling deprived. Knowing I'm going to be eating an enjoyable meal also makes a difference mentally.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2018
    Learner1, out2lunch, ebethc and 3 others like this.
  6. Wolfcub

    Wolfcub Senior Member

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    This is very interesting, and thank you for posting this @ebethc I like to find out about all sorts of helpful ideas.

    I find fasting very difficult indeed. It never has agreed with me. I always have had a low BMI and cannot gain weight no matter what I do. Fasting just depletes me of whatever meagre stores I can hold onto. I daren't even miss dinner, or I can literally see the depletion in my face the next day. Now that's not new -I've always been like that. But recently with the malaise and weariness I have almost always felt better after eating. And I do well on high calorie (healthy) foods and protein
     
    ebethc likes this.
  7. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    great success story... thanks!
     
    Carnation4000 likes this.
  8. Carnation4000

    Carnation4000

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    Wolfcub - you sound like my husband. So as wonderful as IF has been for me (and I mean WONDERFUL), it would be horrible for him. The minute he gets hungry, he turns into, well, a wolfcub - LOL ;-)

    Yup - what's good for one person might be poison for another. Makes trying to figure out nebulous health issues just that much more difficult - sigh -
     
  9. Wolfcub

    Wolfcub Senior Member

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    Haha! A wolfcub! You have got that right @Carnation4000
    I always did love my food, but just recently have begun to see how hard it is for me without it. I would be useless on an expedition. I have literally no fat stores. Now weirdly I am incredibly tough and can get through things by sheer force and determination. But the food thing is a biggie for me. Even if I feel nausea, I eat. And most times feel better for it.

    The one main thing I am learning about CFS is that one method just won't work for everybody. I think the thing is to find something that does work for each person, not only concerning "cure" but about management too.
     
    Carnation4000 likes this.
  10. out2lunch

    out2lunch Senior Member

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    Has anyone here done protein cycling (PC) with their intermittent fasting diet? The purpose of PC is to increase autophagy, which I thought was something our bodies didn't do very well with ME/CFS.

    Thanks! :nerd:
     
  11. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    what is protein cycling?
     
  12. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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    As I burn aminos for fuel as Fluge and Mella found in their study, and need about 130-135g a day, cycling proteins would be a disaster for me. Amino acids perform a multitude of essential tasks in our bodies.
     
    ljimbo423 likes this.
  13. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    are you saying that you take amino acid supplements (~130g per day)? which brand do you take?

    I tried a vegan diet and my gut felt WAY better, but I was also WAY more tired and spacey... I broke down and had a chicken breast and the extra fatigue and spacey-ness went away... I've always thought is was due to the amino acids, so if I'm understanding you correctly, this makes sense..
     
  14. pamojja

    pamojja Senior Member

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    Due to the onset of a chronic disease 10 years ago (PAD) I changed my diet - low fat vegan for 30 years - by adding fish, eggs back in, and limiting carbohydrates. Naturally I turned to only 2 meals a day because all the satiating fats from nuts, seeds, eggs, avocado, olives, coconuts, along with much higher fiber. Also because I need to sleep at least 10 hours, can't eat anything without frequently throwing up within the first 2 hrs awake, and falling-asleep difficulties with a fully digesting stomach, I arrived on my own at an about 8 hour eating window. Very rarely when I feel the need to snack in-between it's just a dark-chocolate square or 2-3 nuts.

    Other than that, had to quit one of my part-time jobs 1 1/2 years ago, and therefore throughout could avoid almost any PEM occurrence in that time period. Last 2 days came the real challenge by having to attend 2 days for a 2 full-days meeting of our company (before could work concentrated only for 5 hrs before PEM started). Therefore with my need of 10 hrs sleep and not being able to eat some time before and after. I went fasted, only had lunch (and more coffee than usual), and went back to bed without eating again. Though I experienced PEM after my usual 5 hrs, it has become very mild :) (exhaustion and brain fog, but much less pains) compared to last year and considering the extent of this exertion. But I haven't been hungry.

    I'm always been skinny, that didn't change. And my only ubiome test last year did show a higher diversity than about 90% of all tested.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2018

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