Choline on the Brain? A Guide to Choline in Chronic Fatigue Syndrome
http://phoenixrising.me/research-2/the-brain-in-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-mecfs/choline-on-the-brain-a-guide-to-choline-in-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-by-cort-johnson-aug-2005
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Im outta here. Thank you for everything.

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by gregh286, May 28, 2018.

  1. gregh286

    gregh286 Senior Member

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    This will be my last post and hopefully (without sounding mean) last visit here. I want to say a big thank you to PR for the wealth of knowledge and support it provides us, I have now almost totally recovered and have identified root cause and treatments with high effectiveness.

    My ME was a slow onset that really come to peak in 2012, although i had sporadic energy crashes back to 1999. Alcohol abuse being my CFS trigger. But in 2012 also continual CFS pressure on body seemed to bring adrenals also to halt, this brings all the crazy symptoms.....feeling of impending doom,,,racing HR,,,unable to hold conversation ,,,lobido loss,,,unstoppable emotions,,,,mad hormonal stuff. This HPA nightmare takes CFS to a new level. Now my adrenals seem 100% fine but took many years to get them back...

    Certainly toxin exposure and chemical abuse sends the body into a protection mode, its no wonder so many Gulf veterans come down with it. I realised that carbs are a total no-no when CDR (cell defence response) is turned on,,,I call it carb dumping,,,,its the mother of all crashes when CDR is on and you starting pumping in glucose,,,,,body just becomes a metabolic waste dumping ground...heavy brain fog, lactic legs,,,.pretty sure the researchers will find out the carb part of krebs is totally dynsfuctional in CDR,,,PDH enzyme,,,,COA,,,etc,

    I think a keto diet doesn't get the results as certainly CFS brings about major HPA issues, until they are resolved then keto i would think would be pretty fruitless.
    ALA is the best supplement i ever used,,,,its a total mopper up of all things metabolically toxic. I can gauge it by hand numbness whether i need more or less. It brings HR down during exercise unbelievably well which obviously improves aerobic thresholds by some margins. HR under exercise always a good measure of our CFS ability.For men also, high doses of glutamine is an excellent power replacement in crashes.
    So, I not sure what to make of that, but in lay terms i just assume that our blood is so full of metabolic toxin from almost non existent carb burn into krebs, that ALA is quite effective to remove this hazardous waste.

    I pretty much eat normal now, as my trigger is removed and krebs cycle resumes normal function, but in event of a backslide, CFS symptoms do return, maybe it will be like this for rest of my days,,,I'm not sure.

    So, yes CFS is recoverable, I count myself lucky as my trigger is avoidable, for viral onsets PWME I hope they can find a way out for you soon.
    I truly wish everyone the best for their future and keep the faith for the great progress made in research in the past few months,

    I will reply any questions to the thread, or email me gregh286@hotmail.com

    Warm regards.
    G.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2018
  2. Murph

    Murph :)

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    Sad to see you go, but glad you feel better!.

    Since we both got a lot of benefit from whey, I'm hopeful that maybe your case and my case have some overlap and I can keep improving too!

    I must try giving up carbs. Only problem is every time I do I feel *appalling* so I've never stuck to it.
     
  3. gregh286

    gregh286 Senior Member

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    Hey murph.
    Yea whey is good fuel source glutamine easier to get down in larger volumes.
    Increase ketones by lowering,carb.......not need to go pure keto. Zero carb is very difficult to maintain.
     
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  4. Wonkmonk

    Wonkmonk Senior Member

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    :thumbsup:
     
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  5. mariovitali

    mariovitali Senior Member

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    @gregh286


    Really glad you made it. It is interesting that you are able to take Whey Protein without any symptoms.


    What is more interesting -at least for me and the Liver Theory i have been trying to move forward- is the fact that you state that Alcohol abuse was your ME/CFS trigger.

    @Hip do you have any comment on this? I am tagging you since it appears to me that you are mostly inclined towards the viral aspect of ME/CFS.
     
  6. Congratulations on your progress.

    ALA is a great supplement, but people can get into trouble with it under certain conditions.

    It's a cofactor for the citric acid/Kreb's energy cycle, so it will give natural feeling energy. It's an antioxidant. But it also converts to a mercury chelator. This is where the trouble can come in.

    Mercury is an inhibitor in the carbohydrate pathway, citric acid cycle, methylation cycle and many other cycles and pathways in the body. I believe that many of us have mercury and other toxic metals. Most people aren't aware of it because it's tricky to detect. Mercury is colorless and odorless. It's unfortunately ubiquitous in our environment.

    So it's not like the carbohydrate pathway magically stopped working, so that causes a build up of toxins. It's the other way around - there was toxin exposure and that inhibited various pathways from working well, including, ironically the detoxification pathways. That can create a self perpetuating downward spiral or metabolic trap.

    If ALA isn't take on it's half life, it can cause mercury redistribution, which can cause mercury toxicity symptoms. That makes me concerned about the numb hands symptom.

    See the Cutler chelation info in my signature link for more info.
     
  7. gregh286

    gregh286 Senior Member

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    Phew. Thanks for that.
    Yes, actually alcohol was main trigger but i,had other triggers.......wheat flour.....MSG....few other things.
    So I don't know if I am pathogically poor detoxifier that I get bad reaction from toxin ingestion.
     
  8. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    In order to scientifically determine what factors might be possible triggers or causes of ME/CFS, you have to perform a study on a large group, and see if certain factors are statistically associated with ME/CFS.

    For example, studies have shown that significant exposure to organophosphate or organochlorine pesticides is statistically a risk factor for ME/CFS. One study in Scotland found the prevalence of ME/CFS among farmers with significant organophosphate pesticide exposure to be 4 times higher than the normal UK prevalence.

    You cannot determine risk of trigger factors in any other way. So when someone is guessing that their trigger factors were alcohol, wheat, MSG or whatever, that does not really mean anything. You simply cannot determine triggers in this guessing way, without conducting a statistical study.

    If you wanted to show that alcohol abuse was trigger or risk factor for ME/CFS, you would have to conduct a study on alcoholics, and demonstrate a higher rate of ME/CFS among alcoholics.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2018
  9. pamojja

    pamojja Senior Member

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    Congratulations!

    May I ask, what doses of ALA you took? And at what intervals? Are you still taking some?
     
  10. gregh286

    gregh286 Senior Member

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    Yes still take it for now.about 1200mg a day.
     
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  11. pamojja

    pamojja Senior Member

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    Therefore I guess twice daily each a 600mg capsule?
     
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  12. mariovitali

    mariovitali Senior Member

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    Couldn't agree more, however no one is doing such study to the best of my knowledge despite anecdotal mentions of several events that have one potential target : The Liver
     
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  13. gregh286

    gregh286 Senior Member

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    Yes true hip. Need deep study. But almost everyone comes to cfs with a trigger of some description. Flu...ebv....lake tahoe.....food poisioning.....phosphates.....mercury...
     
  14. gregh286

    gregh286 Senior Member

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    Yea.
     
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  15. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    If your triggers were standard ones known to be linked to ME/CFS, like EBV infection, enterovirus infection, pesticides, mycotoxins, and if you were hit with one or more of those just before you ME/CFS developed, then you can say with some confidence that those triggers were probable factors behind your ME/CFS.

    But if a factor has no known link to ME/CFS, then even if you were exposed to it at the time your ME/CFS appeared, you cannot be really confident it played any role.



    Some people think for example that any infection can trigger ME/CFS; but in fact it is only small number of pathogens that are statistically associated with ME/CFS. For example, 10% of people who get glandular fever (usually caused by EBV) will get ME/CFS; this has been shown in studies. But no one ever seems to get ME/CFS after say norovirus infection (winter vomiting bug).
     
  16. mariovitali

    mariovitali Senior Member

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    It will be interesting to see the hypothesis as to whether viruses that are associated with ME/CFS tend to also affect Liver function.

    @Hip do you have a list of all the viruses that set the stage for ME/CFS?
     
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  17. gregh286

    gregh286 Senior Member

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    I know it's alcohol. I can trigger a brutal ME attack with it that takes days and days to get over.
     
  18. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    Once you develop ME/CFS, then you often become sensitive to alcohol, and to other drugs as well. But that by itself does not imply that alcohol can cause ME/CFS.



    The main pathogens linked to ME/CFS are: coxsackievirus B, echovirus, EBV, HHV-6, cytomegalovirus, parvovirus B19 and Chlamydia pneumoniae.
     
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  19. mariovitali

    mariovitali Senior Member

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    @Hip Right so here we go.


    I wonder if anyone is listening. I really hope i am wrong with this.



    Coxsackie Virus

    Echovirus

    HHV-6

    Cytomegalovirus


    Parvovirus



     
  20. Murph

    Murph :)

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    can I aks when you figured that out because I thought you said for a while that you did well on alcohol.
     

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