Hypnic Jerks (Myoclonus) After LDN and Antihistamine

[ChrisD]

I was going quite well with my protocol of Ketogenic diet, probiotics and supplements but since I felt myself plateauing I wanted to try LDN to reach the next level of health.

Unfortunately is has really set me back currently; I started on 1.5mg of LDN in the morning and the first 2-3 days were fine with some promising signs of feeling better in the afternoon and evening and improved food intolerances, but on the third night I started to experience Hypnic jerks and adrenaline rushes that kept me up most of the night. So I took a two day break then dropped the dose to 0.5mg at night and again I went for a few days okay before the jerks and rushes coming back. Finally I took a break and tried again at 0.2mg, and 0.1mg eventually - even then having the same issue - and even worse I started having the issue 4 days after being off it all together and now have persistent Jerks and adrenaline rush!

Other factors that could be contributing are that around the days where the jerks started, I had taken an antihistamine for hay fever, I was also using CBD Oil along side LDN. I've read online that LDN and Magnesium can compete for the NMDA receptors in the brain so potentially one could dump the other? It also appears hypnic jerks are linked to magnesium deficiency.

I had a couple of really awful nights a few days ago where I couldn't sleep at all and thought I would die, so the doctor has put me on amitryptiline which has helped a lot, but I really don't want to be on it as I don't llike the short term side effects and know of the long term side effects. My rib plate is so sore from all the adrenaline rushing from the stomach area and seemingly hitting the tissue around the chest, so it is quite severe.

In the mean time, I am using lots of Omega3 B12 and Magnesium as deficiencies in all of these are linked to this problem, I just hope that I haven't somehow done neurological damage.

 

[sb4]

I got these too when I was on a bad brand of mirtazipine. I do think it's something to do with adrenalin as that is one of the mechanisms of action of mirt. I recently had this again one night which could have been due to switching brands. I hope it stays away as it's rough trying to sleep like that.

Did you say it's decreased slightly with magnesium?

 

[pattismith]

https://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/restless-feet-and-hypnic-jerks.52227/

just to add that my hypnic jerks (in the link above) didn't came back after some antibiotic courses.

My feet still move a bit in the morning though, but nothing too frightening.

Let's hope your own problem will be fixed soon!

 

[ChrisD]

I got these too when I was on a bad brand of mirtazipine. I do think it's something to do with adrenalin as that is one of the mechanisms of action of mirt. I recently had this again one night which could have been due to switching brands. I hope it stays away as it's rough trying to sleep like that.

Did you say it's decreased slightly with magnesium?

It has decreased with magnesium, but I also discovered that you need to supplement Calcium too as it can be linked to calcium deficiency. I have also been on amitryptyline and then Noritryptyline which helped to calm it all down.

The trouble is that my energy has taken a whack and I am back to a level where a small amount of energy output can cause PEM and especially air hunger, and unfortunately the Myoclonus has become part of my PEM.

Trying to just take it really easy at the moment and feed my body good nutrients that will help the central nervous system, but I feel a bit like the LDN/Antihistamine rattled something in my body (Perhaps suspected Lyme/Bartonella) as I have experienced other weird things like very slight speech issues, cold tingling in the side of my head, internal tremor, eye issues etc.

@pattismith Which antibiotics and for which bacteria/virus? Maybe I have got mixed up but I seem to remember us discussing similar symptoms before to do with muscular stuff, posture and arthomyzin antibiotic.

 

[pattismith]

@pattismith Which antibiotics and for which bacteria/virus? Maybe I have got mixed up but I seem to remember us discussing similar symptoms before to do with muscular stuff, posture and arthomyzin antibiotic.

I started a course of azithromycin + doxycyclin when I realised it was effective to relieve my spine pains (which was very bad);

I can't say which bacteria was responsible for it. I was negative for Borrelia, but I had IgG positive for chlamydia Pneumoniae, mycoplasma Pneumoniae and yersinia enterolitica.

After 4 months of these antibiotics, the spinal pains didn't came back, and my hypnic jerks disappeared, but I got a lot of side effects on my brain and muscle, which I suspect was a result of my Low T3 syndrome and a low blood potassium that went worse after these treatment.

I got a small relapse of lighter hypnic jerks after some months but it disapeared when I got another course of Clarithromycin (same kind of antibiotic than azithromycin); this treatment was intended to treat a bad cat bite at that time, but it helped for my hypnic jerks recurrence at that time, eventhough the side effects were very bad again....

 

[sb4]

My Hypnic jerks that recently came back was due to, it seems, licorice. I was taking a supplement with that as an ingredient. It must have built up in my system or something because it didn't kick in for a couple of weeks. Went away when I stopped the supp. More evidence to indicate adrenaline.

 

[pattismith]

My Hypnic jerks that recently came back was due to, it seems, licorice. I was taking a supplement with that as an ingredient. It must have built up in my system or something because it didn't kick in for a couple of weeks. Went away when I stopped the supp. More evidence to indicate adrenaline.

I still don't understand what causes hypnic jerks. and what is exactely hypnic jerk.

The main problem is that hypnic jerk is considered physiological and normal, and for this reason is not really investigated!

This 2014 paper gives an interesting theory, hypnic Jerks could be a spinal reflex:

https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/hypnic-reflex-a-spinal-perspective-2167-0277.1000177.pdf

it would match with my own observation that hypnic jerks was associated with spine pain in my case, and that it disappered when the spine pain disappeared as well!


Obviously if you have an hypnic jerk ( sleep start ) from time to time, it may be benign, but if you have it every night, it should be considered as an issue!

I stopped Liqorice when I realized my blood potassium was low and liqorice is known to affect potassium level!

 

[sb4]

@pattismith Yeah I have no idea. Perhaps the spine lengthening and muscle activation is one cause, and high adrenaline another. I know I consistantly had this problem whilst messing around with a certain brand of mirtazapine at night; so in my particular case, I'm not sure I could say it was spinal stuff. Interesting though.

 

[pattismith]

@pattismith Yeah I have no idea. Perhaps the spine lengthening and muscle activation is one cause, and high adrenaline another. I know I consistantly had this problem whilst messing around with a certain brand of mirtazapine at night; so in my particular case, I'm not sure I could say it was spinal stuff. Interesting though.

stress is considered a factor that can trigger or worsen hypnic jerks, so stress hormons (maybe adrenaline) involvement is consistent.
In my case though, stress doesn't trigger nor worsen hypnic jerks.
Once again, it could be that several causes could lead to the same issue...

 

[ChrisD]

I started a course of azithromycin + doxycyclin when I realised it was effective to relieve my spine pains (which was very bad);

I can't say which bacteria was responsible for it. I was negative for Borrelia, but I had IgG positive for chlamydia Pneumoniae, mycoplasma Pneumoniae and yersinia enterolitica.

After 4 months of these antibiotics, the spinal pains didn't came back, and my hypnic jerks disappeared, but I got a lot of side effects on my brain and muscle, which I suspect was a result of my Low T3 syndrome and a low blood potassium that went worse after these treatment.

I got a small relapse of lighter hypnic jerks after some months but it disapeared when I got another course of Clarithromycin (same kind of antibiotic than azithromycin); this treatment was intended to treat a bad cat bite at that time, but it helped for my hypnic jerks recurrence at that time, eventhough the side effects were very bad again....

It sounds like we definitely spoke before about spinal posture, balance/coordination, cracking and popping of joints etc. I suspect our ailments are quite similar as it has been suggested I need to look at Chlamydia and Myco Pneumoniae, also have you considered Bartonella in regards to the cat bite?

In regards to the spinal reflex, i have noticed that when I am sitting on the sofa in a slouched position that I start to feel jerks in my arms (at any time of the day) so I am trying hard to maintain good posture and also stretch the spine with some very gentle yoga. I have mostly got it under control at the moment but that means not doing any exertion at all, when I am used to doing a short walk each day - so its quite frustrating. The triggers for the jerking seem to be physical exertion, Mental stress (although I do not believe that to be causal) and also certain foods - particularly a lot of vegetable fibre which I do not get on well with anyway.

I certainly believe that the LDN and antihistamine has rattled something and made it active in the bloodstream, I have read about how antihistamines can affect spirochetes.

 

[ChrisD]

Just an update: I had been doing quite well for a couple of weeks on Noritryptyline which was masking these symptoms and has been helping me get a 'good sleep', last night I forgot to take it and they started up again in the form of adrenaline surges without so much of a jerk in a particular limb. Anyway, they are so persistent and basically keep me up all night.

This month after they started, my HR resting and active has been around 10-20% higher, and my gut feeling is that something viral is definitely active and at play here. My NHS doctor is running two Elisa Lyme tests and I am finally getting extensive lyme testing next week which will check for coinfections as well.