The 12th Invest in ME Research Conference June, 2017, Part 2
MEMum presents the second article in a series of three about the recent 12th Invest In ME International Conference (IIMEC12) in London.
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how does LPS get processed in the body?

Discussion in 'The Gut: De Meirleir & Maes; H2S; Leaky Gut' started by ebethc, Jan 28, 2018.

  1. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    does anyone know the pathways for LPS in the body? If I knew, maybe I could find a way to help my body get it out, like saunas or something. thanks.
     
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  2. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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    I looked it up as I was curious. They seem to be eliminated through the liver. Apparently IVIG and monoclonal antibodies can help, too.

    How do you know if you have an issue with them?
     
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  3. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    if you have leaky gut, you have LPS in the bloodstream, correct? Is there a serum LPS test?
     
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  4. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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  5. Thinktank

    Thinktank Senior Member

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    CD14 can be tested in blood. CD14 binds to LPS, so an increase in CD14 might indicate a hyperpermeable intestinal lining.
     
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  6. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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    I was just listening to an interview with Dr. Bernarda Zenker. She dug into effects of LPS and found they can:

    1) unregulate IL6 and TNFalpha
    2) promote cytokine storms
    3) inhibit methylation
     
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  7. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    makes sense to me...

    did she have any suggestions for helping your body process it out..? I believe it's metabolized by the liver, which means that it would go back into your gut... I was thinking of getting back into the sauna and trying that route to take the burden off my liver detox pathways..

    cc @ljimbo423
     
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  8. Lalia

    Lalia

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    Hi @ebethc - wondering how you’re going with the quest to deal with LPS? Did you find out how to help excrete them from the body? Thanks!
     
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  9. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    nope - I wish I knew! Maybe sauna? I haven't seen any study, though...
     
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  10. Lalia

    Lalia

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    I find sweating it out each night in a hot bath to be really helpful, thinking of moving up to FiR soon.

    Have you ever tried the supplement Basica? http://www.basica.info/products/basica-vital/

    It's supposed to alkalise the body (which I think helps with LPS but I don't have a reference) - it gives me fantastic energy but slows my motility right down. I think the motility issue may be because I have issues with heavy metals though.
     
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  11. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    do you put anything in the bath, like baking soda or epsom salts?
     
  12. Lalia

    Lalia

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    I don't - I recently had a bad reaction to NAC, so I'm staying away from sulfur foods and supplements like epsom salts for the moment.

    I hadn't thought about baking soda, I wonder if that would give me the energy minus the digestive issues...? Good suggestion, I'll have to give it a try!
     
  13. ljimbo423

    ljimbo423 Senior Member

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    Another reason the NAC could have caused such a bad reaction is because it's a precursor to glutathione. Glutathione is an extremely important antioxidant in the body but also a VERY powerful detoxifier.

    When I first started taking NAC I couldn't take more than 25-50mg at a time, the detox reactions were so strong.

    Very small doses of glutathione, like 5 mg sublingually, will make me so sick, I end up in bed for several hours to a day.

    Jim
     
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  14. ljimbo423

    ljimbo423 Senior Member

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    There is a lipase called acyloxyacyl hydrolase in the liver that detoxifies LPS through a process called deacylation.

    There is also an enzyme in the gut called alkaline phosphatase that detoxifies LPS.....

    LINK

    LINK

    I couldn't find any supplements to specifically increase either one of these things.

    I think the best things to do would be to support overall liver function/detoxification and re-balance the gut microbiome to allow any increase in intestinal permeability to heal.

    That will dramatically lower the amount of LPS getting into the bloodstream.

    Jim
     
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  15. Lalia

    Lalia

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    Hey Jim, that’s so interesting that you had to start at such low doses, what detox symptoms did you have? Have you worked up to a bigger dose now?

    I started at around 100 grams/ day. My digestion improved markedly on the NAC (BMs/ reflux). But it made me feel suicidal, gave me pain in my left jaw/ arm, crashed my energy and gave me nausea and air hunger. If it was just the energy crash, I’d put it down to detox, but the mood changes and left-sided pain make me think of mercury (especially because I eat a lot of fish). Am going to do a heavy metals test now so I know for sure. Given the changes in my digestion, it’s obvious I need to get the cysteine/ sulfur/ glutathione somehow.

    @ljimbo423
     
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  16. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    have you tried splitting the sublingual dose in half? I have a hard time w glutathione, too, but it's one of those things I'd like to go back to again (when I'm improving... if ever??? )

    which sublingual glutathione do you use?
     
  17. ljimbo423

    ljimbo423 Senior Member

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    As best as I can remember the detox symptoms I had were aches, pains, headache, fatigue, ringing in ears and just felt miserable.

    I slowly worked my way up to 1,200 mg a day of NAC, which I've been taking now for a few years. I did the same with alpha lipoic acid (ALA). I very slowly worked up to 475 mg a day.

    Jim
     
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  18. ljimbo423

    ljimbo423 Senior Member

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    I have tried lower doses of 2 mg but just felt a little less miserable.:):eek:

    I actually used source naturals glutathione tabs that weren't sublingual, I just used them that way. They take longer to dissolve but still work.

    I would also like to try glutathione again but it will be when my oxidative stress levels/toxins are much lower so I don't get such strong detox reactions.

    Jim
     
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  19. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    do you think that glutathione mobilizes toxins, and that why it's hard on us?
     
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  20. ljimbo423

    ljimbo423 Senior Member

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    Yes, glutathione is used in both phase 1 and phase 2 liver detoxification .

    [​IMG]

    LINK

    Jim
     
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