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High-dose intravenous Vitamin C effective against Epstein-Barr-Virus?

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by Wonkmonk, Mar 6, 2018.

  1. Wonkmonk

    Wonkmonk Senior Member

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    Hello everyone,

    I was looking for ways to fight Epstein-Barr-Virus and I found this study which says high-dose intravenous Vitamin C (7.5g - 50g infusions) can be effective in treating mononucleosis and chronic fatigue syndrome.

    Did anyone try this? Is the mentioned dose still safe (sounds high given normal intake is 0.1-0.2g a day)? Are there serious adverse effects expected?

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24793092
     
  2. Carl

    Carl Senior Member

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    It would give you diarrhoea, slowly increasing the dose should lessen it until you reach bowel tolerance.

    Have you tried colloidal silver? Reduced colloidal silver rather than the ionic form is preferable.
     
  3. Wonkmonk

    Wonkmonk Senior Member

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    No, I haven't tried either yet.

    Does intravenous Vitamin C also affect the bowel? I knew that was a concern for oral VC and that you can't take it in too high doses, but also IV Vitamin C?

    Are there studies on colloidal silver?
     
  4. pattismith

    pattismith Senior Member

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    I would like to read evidences that Vitamine C can induce digestive symptoms when given intravenously.

    Silver toxicity however is well documented
     
  5. RWP (Rest without Peace)

    RWP (Rest without Peace) Senior Member

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    @Wonkmonk

    First, yes, I have tried 50g (after ramping up) IV of Vit C in the past. It was a very effective treatment for me, but not for my wife, @PWR (Peace without Rest). Of course, you need to find a doctor who is experienced in this area and build up slowly and carefully.

    As far as side effects, nothing significant, only noticed a slight burning in the veins during administration, but not after.
    I noticed no effect on the bowels such as that which I experience with oral Vit C.

    RWP + PWR
     
  6. Wonkmonk

    Wonkmonk Senior Member

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    @RWP (Rest without Peace) @PWR (Peace without Rest) .Thank you for sharing your experience. Could you expand a bit in how far it helped you, i.e. what symptoms got better, was it permanent? How many infusions did you get and how much time was between the infusions?
     
  7. mari_gold

    mari_gold

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    I can only share my experience (but no real scientific data ;-)
    I once had 7,5 g Vit C IV five days in a row for one week, and after that 7,5 g once a week: No side effects (no diarrhea etc.) but felt better, especially I had less brain fog and more energy overall and little bit more muscle strength which lastet for about 3-4 days after infusion(s) and overall I was more stable. As for EBV I had higher titers (probably due to reactivation or maybe because of EBVs cyclic lytic release --> was difficult to say) but there wasn't really significant decrease in EBV relatet to Vit C as far as I know. So far the most effective treatments for me in a really bad crash without negative side effects (I can remember a slight sore feeling in my veins the first days of infusions that disappeared the following IVs). Would also be interested in other people's experiences.
     
  8. Wonkmonk

    Wonkmonk Senior Member

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    Thank you @mari_gold for sharing your experience. Do you remember how you got the infusion, i.e. what volume? Was it in saline? How long did the Infusion last?

    If it make you feel better and there were no side effects, why didn't you continue it regularly?
     
  9. pamojja

    pamojja Senior Member

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    At this link guidelines for giving IV ascorbate by Robert F. Carthcart and Thomas E. Levy, both most experienced in giving IV vitamin C: http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/pdfs/civprep.pdf

    Found an local MD too, who gives inexpensive IVs. However, after realizing she had no idea of doses nor preferable forms for administration (uses a commercial product with only 5g of ascorbic acid - such low doses don't produce higher serum levels than possible with titrating ascorbic acid orally), I didn't.

    Instead got Magnesiumsulfate IVs from her, which with a severe deficiency was more urgent for me and less adverse effect prone due to ignorance.
     
  10. mari_gold

    mari_gold

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    @Wonkmonk The first five IVs were soluted in 500ml NaCl, they took about 1 - 1 1/2 hour (was very long but also the nurses weren't that experienced and the infusion stopped sometimes). The following weekly infusions were soluted in 200 or 250ml NaCl and took about 20-30min (I changed doctors, there everything went more smoothly and more professional and was even cheaper!).
    The slower the infusion the lesser problems with circulation and dizziness (if you would have that at all). At the beginning they started slow but I didn't have any problems when the infusion time was fast (depends on the body's daily condition).

    It's expensive :( so I can't afford to have them all the time ;). But I would, if I had the money and I would even try to have them twice a week or take more than 7,5 g.

    I would love to start them again soon.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2018
  11. mari_gold

    mari_gold

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    @Wonkmonk @pamojja the Vit C I got was a ready-made solution that had to be mixed with the saline.
     
  12. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    I had Vit C IV, 50-75g, 2-3x week for probably six months. It didn’t do anything really, but no side effects either. I still had high EBV/CMV/HHV6 titers after.

    IV Vit C is almost as expensive as ozone here now. And if I were to choose one, it would be ozone, hands down. Thankfully, my insurance covered nearly all the cost back then for the C.
     
    BadBadBear and mari_gold like this.
  13. mari_gold

    mari_gold

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    Hello @Ema do you remember what kind of Vit C that was (brand name or composition)?

    How is the ozone applied? Did it let drop your virus titers or just made you feel better and more energetic?
     
  14. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    I don't know. I never saw it before it got mixed up into the bag.

    For ozone, the blood is taken out of the vein, mixed with ozone, and then put back in. Sometimes we do it with UV light too.

    I'm feeling better; hoping my viral titers will finally show some improvement when I test them next time.
     
  15. RWP (Rest without Peace)

    RWP (Rest without Peace) Senior Member

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    @Wonkmonk

    Symptoms that improved: energy, functionality;
    Duration: I can't remember exactly, but it was at least weekly, probably for about 3-6 months.
    Permanence: It lasted for a while (1-2 years), but new stresses caused setbacks, not a full
    relapse. If those circumstances hadn't occurred, it might have lasted longer.


    Again, I encourage you to keep pursuing this, but make sure you're doing your homework regarding the doctor you choose, etc. It's so easy to make a mistake with anything IV, I'd rather you delay healing than risk something backfiring (not the C itself, but something unforeseen).

    RWP + PWR
     
  16. Wonkmonk

    Wonkmonk Senior Member

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    Yes, the costs might be an issue. 100g Vitamin C (oral) is 2€ in my pharmacy, so for 50g, it would be 100€ plus costs of infusion which may be 200-500€ depending on the doctor's office. If you want to do it 2-3 times a week, that means 1000-1500€ per week and that's tough.

    Perhaps if one searches one could find a local nurse who is willing to do the infusion for 50-100€. Or one could even try to do it alone, because side effects seem to be rare. Then it would be 100-200€ per infusion, but that would still be expensive.
     
  17. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    This in vitro study found that ascorbic acid had antiviral effects against herpes simplex 1, poliovirus and influenzavirus A at the sort of concentrations that you would get from high dose intravenous ascorbate infusions, but the authors noted that these concentrations also led to cytotoxicity (cell death), and proposed that the antiviral mechanism of ascorbic acid in part involves this toxic effect against cells.

    So that's not so good if IV ascorbic acid is killing your cells.

    I think in intravenous infusions they use sodium ascorbate rather than ascorbic acid; I am not sure if ascorbate will be less toxic to cells than ascorbic acid.


    Interestingly enough, dehydroascorbic acid (DHA), the reduced form of ascorbic acid, has far more potent antiviral effects than ascorbic acid (AA), and is much less toxic to cells. But as AA and DHA interconvert in the body, there is not much control on whether you have AA or DHA in your bloodstream.

    This study found high levels of both AA and DHA appeared in the blood after IV infusion of 25 grams of AA.



    The other issue with IV ascorbate is that the plasma half-life of ascorbate is around 2 hours, so that means that 6 hours after your infusion, you ascorbate blood levels will be just one-eighth of their peak value during infusion. So the antiviral effect will not last very long.

    The half-life of DHA is even shorter, in the order of minutes.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2018
  18. Carl

    Carl Senior Member

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    That is not true. There have been only a few recorded cases of argyria and those were cases of very high dosage and very badly prepared ionic silver using table salt sodium chloride to speed up the preparation because he was using such large doses.

    For Ionic charged Silver yes but not for reduced ie none charged silver. Ionic silver combines with selenium and sulphur inside cells which stops the silver from being eliminated and can cause argyria. That does not happen with uncharged silver particles ie Reduced silver. MesoSilver is even better due to the very small particle sizes.

    I did not read the first post correctly and missed the IV part. It is high dose or raising the dosage too quickly of Oral Vit C which can cause diarrhoea and not IV Vit C. Therefore I apologise for the mistake and for implying that IV Vit C might affect the bowels.

    Oral Vit C is quite poorly absorbed. That is why some use Liposomal Vit C. There is another method that I came across on youtube, making dehydroascorbic acid (DHAA). He claims that Liposomal C absorption is no better than oral ascorbic acid. That looks fairly simple but DHAA does require additional processes to reduce it back to the vit c and therefore it would need to be taken into account.



    http://www.qualityliposomalc.com/
     
  19. Wonkmonk

    Wonkmonk Senior Member

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    Omg, this is of course total nonsense, if 100g is 2€ then 50g is 1€, so the whole cost of the Vitamin C infusion is the cost for the doctor/nurse administering it. I don't know if high-dose, sterile VC requires a prescription, but if it doesn't, just find a cheaper doc, and you can maybe do 2-3 infusions for 400-600€ a week.
     
  20. Wonkmonk

    Wonkmonk Senior Member

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    Thank you @Hip for the studies, this is very interesting. Could high-dose IV Vitamin C have an immunomodulatory effect in addition to the possible antiviral effect?
     

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