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Help!! 5htp and spine pain now!!!

Discussion in 'Alternative Therapies' started by tootsieroll, Oct 12, 2018.

  1. tootsieroll

    tootsieroll

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    Ok freaking outttttttttt. Ok long story short. Had massive menstrual bleeding. Took high dose birth control to stop it but it didnt. i went mad crazy so stopped and went to acupuncture. Damage to brain nutrients was already done and I was low in serotonin which causes fear and irrational thought/anxiety. Cue in 5htp.

    By coincidence day after I took 5htp I started to experience spine pain from neck downwards. Because I took one dose of 15mg 5htp and 100mg tryptophan next day I am now scared I may have EMS or eosinophilia myalgia. Ive tried epsom bath. Ive tried heating pad nonstop and it barely touches it. It’s like I can’t hold my spine/neck up. I try reasoning with myself. That maybe I used my cellphone too much. Or I talked on phone too much with crisis help line, therefore my neck and shoulders are sore and can no longer holding up my head due to pain. But the one thing that gets me is that the heating doesnt help much. It use to always help. I hope EMS symptoms is so horrible that one can’t mistaken them and that what i have is just a severely inflamed spine from overuse!!! Pleae help as I am close to running to hospital!!!!!!

    Only other thing I took yesterday, a quarter pill of zinc and quarter pill of B6. But im pretty sure spine pain was before these which is when I took 5htp/tryptophan 2 days ago.

    Please unless your aware of what EMS eosinophilia is and knowledgeable about it, please try not to scare me. Im already scared enough:

    That one dose of 5htp helped. tryptophan only made me super groggy next day.
     
  2. Moof

    Moof Senior Member

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    EMS has been caused by both tryptophan and 5HTP, but it's very rare. I don't think it comes on so rapidly, has just the one symptom, or occurs after only one or two doses, so the chances are it's something else entirely.

    Try to get some rest, and hopefully the spinal pain will remit (if you're scared and tense, it'll only make it worse). I know that's much easier said than done, but it's so unlikely to be EMS that it's not worth worrying yourself to death. It sounds like you're having a horrible day – I really hope you feel better soon. :)
     
  3. tootsieroll

    tootsieroll

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    THANK YOU!! I literally felt like I would die. This pain coupled with the original anxiety/akasthasia/fear from these forsaken birth control pill side effects, and I was ready to say goodbye to everyone. The pain can only be described as an inflamed tingling/numbing pain up and down spine and branches out into tissues causing it to feel like I can’t keep my body weight up. I would have been less worried if it was gradual prior to 5htp but it just had to hit the day after I took a dose. Now my question is...do I still continue on with it seeing I still need to address the low serotonin symptoms that won’t clear on its own. Thank you for helping me calm down.
     
    Sidny likes this.
  4. Moof

    Moof Senior Member

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    I'd give your body a rest for a couple of days, @tootsieroll – if you then go back to the 5HTP and have no symptoms, you'll at least be more confident it didn't cause the huge pain flare-up.
     
  5. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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    Er...the current thinking is that many of us have a problem with high tryptophan - that there is a metabolic trap contributing to our ME/CFS. I'm not 100% sure what taking 5-HTP and tryptophan will do, but it is worth becoming educated about and being wary of triggering the trap by taking supplrments affecting the kynurenine pathway.

    Backing up, sounds like your current issues go back to your massive menstrual bleeding? Any idea what triggered that? Have you had your hormone levels checked? Do you have any nutrient deficiencies which could be affecting your endocrine or nervous system? Seems like you hit some threshold which caused your symptoms.

    Could it be interacting with another drug you are taking? There are several known drug interactions that can be very unpleasant.

    Best wishes...
     
    pattismith likes this.
  6. tootsieroll

    tootsieroll

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    No I do not take any other medications. It was just the high dose birth control that I stopped a month ago after a months use for heavy bleeding. Thats why im experiencing high anxiety right now. I have been healing from benzo withdrawal for 4.5 yrs and this really set me back in the brain chemical area. I was already depleted to begin with and these pills further depleted me. The one dose 5htp really helped to clear the mind and that one dose of tryptophan next day just made me groggy as hell. Then the spine pain hit the next day after that. Did tryptophan convert to niacin in my body causing this spine inflammation. Tomorrow will be a couple days since I’ve taken anything and would like to try 5htp again despite the spine pain still. Is it really true that EMS does not manifest itself so quickly and that i’m experiencing some other side effect??
     
  7. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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    Have you tried GABA or theanine or methylation nutrients for your anxiety?

    Or Boswellia for CNS swelling? It has been used with success in glioblastoma patients.
     
  8. tootsieroll

    tootsieroll

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    Hi yes I have tried GABA before and it caused more anxiety. Theanine caused depression after a couple days so I have steered clear from those. 5htp was the only thing that wiped away all that brain fog and confusion. I am currently working my way up on one pill of b complex that is specially formulated for me by my genetics specialist but it is making me agitated a bit.

    I will have to do some research on Boswellia as this is the first ive heard of it. Thanks!

    Was reading an article by APFED how 5htp is the cause of EMS cases but I find out that that company is affiliated with Big Pharma. How much of it is fear mongering???
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2018
  9. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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  10. tootsieroll

    tootsieroll

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    Yes that's the one.

    I just spoke to a nutritionist that works part time at the health food store and she told me that the 5htp is very popular among clients and have yet to hear complaints of it and it has been on the shelves for as long as she can remember. Now tryptophan is a different story she says. It was taken off the shelves for a short period of time. That sets off alarms for me. I just may wait another day and give 5htp another go. This time I will purchase a pharmaceutical grade brand. There is also a chance the high hormone side effect from previous birth control use is causing this inflammation. But the spine pain had the worst timing, appearing only after the 5htp and tryptophan dose.
     
  11. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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    The article explains exactly why tryptophan was taken off the market. It was contaminated due to a changed manufacturing process.
     
  12. tootsieroll

    tootsieroll

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    Very true. But at the same time there are so many articles and posts online that argue that it may not have been a contaminant but the 5htp/tryptophan itself :/
     
  13. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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    I've been reading about it for several years now. It was not the l-tryptophan.

    Anyway, from what I heard Phair present, from my own conversation with him, and my subsequent reading, I think it's prudent to stay away from 5-HTP and I-tryptophan.
     
  14. tootsieroll

    tootsieroll

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    Would you mind me asking why is it that so many people do so well on it? Is the problem only when people start abusing long term? Can it be worse than antidepressants which doctors seem so keen on handing out? I just remember so many articles of people suffering on antidepressants due to side effects and never quite being able to get off.
     
  15. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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    It can help people make serotonin, so for those without ME/CFS and who don't have the IDO2 SNPs, it can be useful.

    However, a lot of depression is not caused by serotonin deficiency. Food allergies (particularly gluten and dairy), leaky gut, methylstion nutrient imbalances/deficiencies, zinc/copper imbalances, oxidative stress, and lack of other amino acids, among other things, can cause depression, anxiety, irritability, etc.

    And, as the IDO2 SNPs were found in all of the severely ill patients studied, and seemed to cause fatigue (and lack of NAD for energy production), it might be wise to avoid all forms of tryptophan and look into some of tbe other nutrients to see if they could solve your problem instead.

    A couple of good resources are:

    New Optimum Nutrition for the Mind https://www.amazon.com/dp/1591202590/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_vAcXBbHB2GXV0

    Nutrient Power: Heal Your Biochemistry and Heal Your Brain https://www.amazon.com/dp/1626361282/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_MCcXBb15NZ06Q

    Testing for deficiencies/imbalances would be useful also, to pinpount successful interventions.

    https://www.gdx.net/product/nutreval-fmv-nutritional-test-blood-urine
     
  16. tootsieroll

    tootsieroll

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    Thank you for the informative reply. I will take my time and browse through those links. 5htp was suggested to me by a genetics specialist so he must have decided it was less problematic for me pertaining to my gene results. My line of logic is to use 5htp short term so I can get over the hump of this chemical anxiety while I replenish my deficiencies and proceed with lymphatic massages. The mental agony is just too much to move in any direction and hopefully it can settle me down as I build my levels up. I've been clinging to family members as the fear of being left alone is too much. What do you think of my plan?
     
  17. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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    Did he compare your IDO2 SNPs to those that Phair found to be problematic? If not, he would have missed the problem.

    Additionally, though I have some problematic SNPs that have definitely had a negative impact on my health and complicated my illness. I've learned from genetic experts that it is wise to "treat the patient, not the SNPs." That is, you want to see what the labs say, as you msy have other genes or environmentsl factors changing how your genes express themselves, and you may or may not hsve the problem you think you have.

    My labs say my tryptophan is high when other aminos are not, so it would likely be a bad idea for me, and I am thinking the 5-HTP I took for a year may have caused the problem.
    I think that if you don't know whst your IDO2 SNPs are and don't know your tryptophan status, you are gambling by taking it. Phair said the trap could be triggered to a place we can't get out of in less than 8 weeks.

    So, if I were in your shoes, I'd get the NutrEval test done that I linked to above, and maybe a DNA stool test as most of your serotonin is made in your gut, and microbiome dysbiosis, parasites, etc..can contributed to low serotonin levels, if that's your problem.

    I'd wonder if you have a zinc/copper imbalance or a lack of nutrients needed for methylation. The books I suggested would tell you why. You might benefit frim phospholipids, too.

    If you do testing, you could put together a customized program that would help you fix the symptoms you're experiencing. I just doubt the entire answer is 5-HTP long tern. But I could be wrong. Testing would tell you.

    And while waiting for test results, if it were me, I'd read the books I mentioned above. And then, if you really think you can't function without it, take a little bit of 5-HTP but for as short a time as possible.

    The lymphatic drainage is a great idea!
     
  18. tootsieroll

    tootsieroll

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    Thats really informative. Thank you. I know not every specialist should treat via genetics results. They should treat according to the person and their symptoms.

    With that said, I’m sure 5htp must have been recommended to me for a reason once the specialist has reviewed my results. He spouted off my results to me in such a manner that I couldnt even keep up. He was very well versed in what he specializes in.

    I decided to try a 15mg of 5htp again today by a professional brand and the grogginess proved to be the wrong time to take it during the day (3pm). I was so uncomfortable becus I was expanding all my energy in trying to stay awake! It resulted in elevated cortisol, heart palps, headache. I tried to take a nap at 8 pm but was wide awake, despite how tired I was. I may need to take a Relora today just to decrease the cortisol to get some sleep.

    Its 12 am now and awake but tired as hell. Does this have to do with 5htp metabolizing an hour after ingesting and then the jolt of serotonin is energizing me? I learnt it can raise cortisol too so my plan for tomorrow night is take relora and melatonin and get ready for bed. Once in bed I will take the 5htp and try to fall asleep asap. It will never get a chance to keep me awake and if it wants to make me groggy then I am asleep already. The reason I don’t want to give up on it is becus at 12 am I find my ocd and intrusive thoughts have lessened. Serotonin must be part of the missing link.

    Only problem is I dont know if these heart palps are caused by 5htp or worsened by me fighting to stay awake. I wont know till i take my relora and sleep tonight. If I wake up refreshed then it definitely wasn’t the 5htp.

    I want to use this short term so I can build my nutrients back up while getting relief from current anxiety. What is your thought on this? Taking 5htp when I get in bed as opposed to an hour to 4 hours before bed.
     
  19. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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    Since you asked, I think you should have comprehensive nutrient testing done and then work out a plan based on those results, ideally with your doctor, after sharing Phair's video eith him or her.

    I'm not sure I would interpret your symptoms the way you are..i also suspect taking melatonin and 5-HTP may have triggered the metabolic trap, increasing my fatigue. I don't know for sure, but it might because to tread carefully until you have comprehensive nutrient test results.
     
  20. tootsieroll

    tootsieroll

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    This makes sense. Well that was short lived so maybe it did trigger some trap. Gave me heart palps and couldn’t sleep a wink and am soooo tired and this is after not having taken for a day. It did momentarily lift the brain fog. I am still dealing with elevated estrogen from the pills. Do you have any suggestions as to how to lower them. I’ve heard of DIM and I3C.

    Also I have had an organics acid test to test for my deficiencies. I hope the test is accurate enough.
     

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