Fivefold to eightfold increase in the incidence of ME from 1980 to 1989

[Valentijn]

I think @Rvanson was simply alluding to the way ME/CFS was often dismissively referred to in newspapers in the 1980s. This term was mentioned in this earlier post.

However it wasn't used in the context of the Incline outbreak, and bears no relevance to that. Just because it was used once doesn't mean we need to keep using it.

I find it especially abhorrent in the context of suggesting that some neurological diseases result from drug use, yuppie or otherwise.

 

[Hip]

However it wasn't used in the context of the Incline outbreak

Fair enough.

 

[Rvanson]

Please don't use derogatory slurs. And it's "ME" or "ME/CFS", not "CFS/ME".

I did not mean to dismiss ME/CFS as derogatory at all, Valentijn. But I must point out that when the Incline Village, NV outbreak occurred, well before I myself contracted this illness, many people and publications did indeed call ME/CFS
the "Yuppie Flu". You live in Europe, so I dont think you understand how things here in America work, but that's OK.

Unlike most western counties, we dont have any "hate-speech" laws and we do not have universal healthcare either..

"Hip" is 100 percent correct about CFS/ME being dismissed in the US, particularly if you are a man. Men here are not supposed to get sick, with anything but deadly illnesses. If you are "out of work" here then you are considered "lazy".

I cannot mention my having CFS/ME to anyone, outside of forums like these, or in a support group, since it would negatively effect me, and not help me at all. In the USA, we do not have many safety nets, and none at all for men.

 

[Rvanson]

Fair enough.

No, its not fair. Lots of things in the USA are not fair at all. Too many Europeans expect people who live in the USA to
behave just like they do, without knowing much about our history. Even now, being sick with ME/CFS, I would not trade
whats left of our freedoms for what passes for freedom in Europe. I'd rather die, then give up my freedoms, even now.

 

[Valentijn]

I did not mean to dismiss ME/CFS as derogatory at all, Valentijn. But I must point out that when the Incline Village, NV outbreak occurred, well before I myself contracted this illness, many people and publications did indeed call ME/CFS
the "Yuppie Flu".

It was called that well before the outbreak. Hence it has pretty much nothing to do with discussing ME/CFS in light of the Tahoe outbreak. There is no reason to bring it up routinely as the label being used ME/CFS.

You live in Europe, so I dont think you understand how things here in America work, but that's OK.

I'm American. And I dare say most Europeans understand the American situation far better than more than a few Americans understand anything about Europe.

 

[Rvanson]

However it wasn't used in the context of the Incline outbreak, and bears no relevance to that. Just because it was used once doesn't mean we need to keep using it.

I find it especially abhorrent in the context of suggesting that some neurological diseases result from drug use, yuppie or otherwise.

It doesn't matter if you find it abhorrent or not, Valentijn. I deal in facts and logic, not suppositions nor hearsay. Perhaps
you may or may not have indulged in the use of illegal drugs only once, but many people with lots of money have been known to be chronic abusers of drugs such as cocaine. I have never used illegal drugs, and I still contracted CFS/ME.

Robin Williams even admitted to using cocaine, long before he committed suicide. Cocaine mainly targets the Dopamine receptors, with Dopamine and its receptors being a major player in the development of Parkinson's Disease.

Here is but one of many articles I could pull up about the chronic or sustained use of cocaine ,leading to Parkinson's Disease:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/12/051214084800.htm

 

[Valentijn]

Here is but one of many articles I could pull up about the chronic or sustained use of cocaine ,leading to Parkinson's Disease:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/12/051214084800.htm

That's a press release. Scientific research would be more relevant.

Albeit still completely irrelevant to ME/CFS, CFS/ME, Yuppie Flu, or whatever derogatory terms you prefer.

 

[Asa]

@Hip -- Just wondered if you'd seen "Vanishing of the Bees". It made me recall this thread (though I've only read a small bit). The film though mentions the evolution of WWI chemical warfare agents into (and rebranded/used as) pesticides.

The film then goes on to discuss systemic pesticides and their use/ban in countries, as honeybees disappeared/died en masse from immune and neurological related problems, which developed many months following exposure. And there's discussion of how pesticides build up in soil and discussion of how multiple generations of bees may be affected...

And how governments do or do not do proper research, and how much of the research in the US is done by the companies which profit from a pesticide being declared safe. Conflict of interests...

Anyway, just thought I'd share in case it was meaningful to anyone with an interest.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanishing_of_the_Bees
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neonicotinoid (compare to post 1 timeline?)

 

[Hip]

@Hip -- Just wondered if you'd seen "Vanishing of the Bees".

I have not seen that film, but I have been occasionally following the story over the years about the possible connection of neonicotinoid pesticides and colony collapse disorder. The European Union put a temporary ban on some neonicotinoids which have been linked to honey bee colony collapse.

Though my understanding is that neonicotinoids were introduced because they are thought to be safer for humans than organophosphates.

Various pathogens have also been linked to colony collapse — so the situation is not unlike ME/CFS in terms of having multiple possible causal agents, both toxins and microbes!

 

[actup]

How about radiation exposure?
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/nov/13/nation/na-radiation-nevada13
http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-20140613-column.html

My sister ( who also has me/cfs) and I lived two miles downwind from the Santa Susana field lab in Canoga Park, CA for two years( June,1959 to June,1961). There were 10 secret nuclear reactors without any concrete containment. The Ae1 reactor had a partial meltdown on July 13th, 1959 and a large emission of radioactive gas was allowed in order to avoid an explosion. There were several more over the next two years. The place is a huge radioactive soupbowl to this day.

There is substantial evidence for many, many cover ups of large population radiation exposure throughout the world over the past 70 years. The ongoing contamination from Fukushima means we're only at the beginning of this problem.

Of immediate concern is the fact that radiation exposure affects not only somatic dna but reproductive or germ cell dna as well. http://www.rerf.jp/radefx/genetics_e/geneefx.html

Is this one way multiple generational cfs occurs?

 

[Hip]

How about radiation exposure?

That is an interesting idea.

Ionizing radiation is certainly linked to ME/CFS: it was very common among the cleanup workers of the Chernobyl nuclear accident. Ref: 1 (Although it is not entirely clear whether post-radiation syndrome is actual ME/CFS, or just an ME/CFS-like illness).


Half of human exposure to ionizing radiation comes from natural sources, and the other half from man-made sources. Most of the natural exposure comes from radon, a radioactive gas that seeps out of the ground in certain geographic areas. Most of the man-made exposure comes from medical sources such as X-ray CT scans.

You can see a breakdown of various ionizing radiation sources here:

Ionizing Radiation Sources

Source: here.​

The total yearly exposure humans have to ionizing radiation is called the background radiation exposure.​

If your theory was true, then there would have had to have been a major increase in ionizing radiation exposure in the 1980s. Possibly there might have been increases in medical radiation exposures in the 1980s, through increase usage of CT scans and nuclear medicine, but I could not find any data on that.

However, if your theory was true, you might also expect ME/CFS to be more common in geographic areas where there are naturally high levels of radon — see the radon map of the USA below. (Although I am not entirely clear on this, because houses in high radon areas are fitted with extractors which remove radon). Anyway, as far as I am aware, there is no such clustering of ME/CFS in high radon regions.

Radon Map of the USA

You will find a wealth of articles about ionizing radiation and ME/CFS over at the NCF ME/CFS website.

 

[actup]

Thanks Hip. I found your well presented information very helpful. These are complex scientific issues and I enjoy the comments by the many science literate folks who post on this site.

I will peruse the NCF ME/CFS site as well.

 

[acer2000]

I was also trying to think along the lines of increased mold exposure being a possible factor to explain the elevated number of ME/CFS cases in the 1980s.

Late 70s oil embargo brought efficiency standards for buildings and new material science lead to use of different building materials. So you had "tight" buildings that had very little ventilation to the outside and materials like drywall and wood that allow mold growth much easier vs say brick and plaster. Also construction quality went down a lot. People stopped building houses to last 100 years, they just wanted them up quickly.

 

[Skippa]

This thread made me think: whilst nasty, perhaps lead in petrol/gas has just been set up as a straw man?

Sure, it's good to get rid of it, but we're still left with carbon monoxide and a whole bunch of other noxious chemicals just floating around and poisoning us...

Would sure explain why there is no rush to find "the cause"...

 

[Forbin]

The term "Yuppie Flu" may actually post-date the start of 1984 Incline Village outbreak by two years. The term "Yuppie" itself only went mainstream in 1983.

The earliest use of the word "Yuppie" in relation to the illness that I've been able to find is in the September 1986 issue of Vanity Fair. Despite the moniker, the article says, "- those who have it aren't laughing."

The origin of the use of the term "Yuppie" in relation to the disease may, in fact, come from the number of affluent people at all levels of the motion picture industry who were coming down with the disease at the time. That's what the Vanity Fair article is mainly about. It's suggested in the article that the "stress" of motion picture production - where long stretches of 16 hour days are not uncommon - may be a factor in the illness. Certainly, in hindsight, such a schedule might set you up for a "trigger" - like developing an unusually bad case of the flu if you happened to catch a virus.

Affluent, professional people also aren't as easily "brushed off" when their doctors can't make a diagnosis, so they might have (eventually) received a CEBVS diagnosis more readily than others.

FWIW: Osler's Web mentions how film director Blake Edwards came down with the illness in 1983, a year before the Lake Tahoe outbreak began.

 

[Hip]

Late 70s oil embargo brought efficiency standards for buildings and new material science lead to use of different building materials.

Yeah, the 1970s saw the emergence of sick building syndrome (SBS) which was often in the newspapers at that time.

The NHS lists the symptoms of SBS sick building syndrome as including:

SBS symptoms
headaches and dizziness
nausea (feeling sick)
aches and pains
fatigue (extreme tiredness)
poor concentration
shortness of breath or chest tightness
eye and throat irritation
irritated, blocked or runny nose
skin irritation (skin rashes, dry itchy skin)

Who's affected by SBS?
Anyone can be affected by SBS, but office workers in modern buildings without opening windows and with mechanical ventilation or air conditioning systems are most at risk.

The likelihood of experiencing SBS symptoms can be higher if you're employed in routine work that involves using display screen equipment.

This study found there were a lot of similarities of SBS and Dr Yehuda Shoenfeld's ASIA (autoimmune / auto-inflammatory syndrome induced by adjuvants).

 

[u&iraok]

Late 70s oil embargo brought efficiency standards for buildings and new material science lead to use of different building materials. So you had "tight" buildings that had very little ventilation to the outside and materials like drywall and wood that allow mold growth much easier vs say brick and plaster. Also construction quality went down a lot. People stopped building houses to last 100 years, they just wanted them up quickly.

I live in a late-60's built house. Love it.

How about the idea of supermolds: http://www.sott.net/article/303762-Toxic-mold-illness-a-hidden-pandemic

Since the 1970s, the molds in our environment have become much more aggressive due to the widespread use of a fungicide called Benomyl,1,2 through a process similar to the creation of superbugs by overuse of antibiotics.

In the agriculture industry, Benomyl killed nearly all of the fungi on crops such as strawberries and wheat, but the few surviving fungi happened to be highly toxic molds — which are now flourishing in our environment.

In the 1970s, Benomyl was also added to paints to stop the growth of mold on damp walls, especially in public buildings such as offices and schools.

Just as with food crops, a few types of dangerous mold were selectively allowed to grow unchecked, so we're exposed to more of these dangerous fungi now than at any other time in history, as a direct result of these chemical fungicides.

In the US, 45 million people live and work in moldy buildings, and approximately half of all US buildings have water damage, which greatly increases the likelihood of hidden toxic mold.

 

[Rvanson]

This thread made me think: whilst nasty, perhaps lead in petrol/gas has just been set up as a straw man?

Sure, it's good to get rid of it, but we're still left with carbon monoxide and a whole bunch of other noxious chemicals just floating around and poisoning us...

Would sure explain why there is no rush to find "the cause"...

The lead used in gasoline for 50 years is still in the soil along any stretch of road that was built back then. Its also along
most railroad tracks, along with other toxic substances. I dont know if they cause ME, but they are not good for anyone.

Back before Diesel engines were used in agricultural machines like tractors, leaded gasoline was used, so lead contamination is all around us in the soil. I am sure the pre-WW II coal-powered trains put out plenty of toxic materials as well. Coal is loaded with all manner of heavy metals like lead, mercury, nickel, tin, cadmium, antimony, and arsenic, as well as radio-isotopes of thorium and strontium.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Interestingly enough, the following graph from the California Department of Development Services shows that autism rates also shot up during the 1980s:

Noting the attached graph shows world vaccination rates, and depicts a parallel spike during the same time 1980s period. (percentage immunized for three-four things).

and Yes I know science claims vaccinations don't cause autism or has failed to demonstrate so.

A possible variable at play, one of many. Add: evolution.
Viruses evolve, too.

 

[Hip]

Noting the attached graph shows world vaccination rates, and depicts a parallel spike during the same time 1980s period. (percentage immunized for three-four things).

An interesting graph, although with the vast majority of ME/CFS cases hitting teenagers and adults (see age of onset graph), the timing is not quite right. If there had been a large increase in vaccination in the UK, US and Canada say 20 years prior to the explosion of ME/CFS cases in the 1980s, then that would fit the timescale better.

The introduction of the polio vaccine in the late 1950s fits pretty well in terms of timescale, and there is a very real and scientifically plausible possibility that polio vaccine may have been the cause of the 1980s explosion in ME/CFS. See here.