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Does anyone remember the exact second they got sick

arewenearlythereyet

Senior Member
Messages
1,478
Why don't you try some cognitive pacing?. 10 hrs is more than I do in a day now. I found in the early days to alternate "physical" tasks, like making a coffee with cognitive tasks. perhaps start very low and give yourself 2 hrs cognitive screen time a day and work up from there? I still find having to and fro conversations with groups of people the most draining ( as much as walking up the stairs) as an example. Even if you can't get out of bed much, perhaps record your activity (cognitive and physical) in a daily diary until you get to know what is easy and hard for you? Also if you do have CFS/me then PEM tends to happen 48 hrs later so you need to look back in your diary to understand what triggered it. When I first started I was in a constant state of crashing and didn't know where to start. I did a diary for 2 weeks and reduced all my activity right down until I reached my non crashing baseline. I then slowly worked my way back up for 5 months. I then went back to work but only started with an Hour a day....you get the gist? It sounds like you aren't resting enough and using too much energy. If you don't have CFS/me then at least you will have some symptom evidence to show your doctor when you next see them.
 

Old Bones

Senior Member
Messages
808
Thank you @Old Bones so have you always been severe, what are you symtoms and it's funny you mentioned you get Pem from cognitive efforts like concentrating because all I have been doing for the past weeks is looking things up, I probably spend at least 10 hours a day looking up what ever I can about this

Hi @nikefourstar I'll respond to your "Post" question first. Although I don't remember the exact second I got sick, I do remember the exact day. Both my husband and I became ill with an upper respiratory infection from the same exposure. He recovered, and I have never been well since.

No, I haven't always been severe. It's probably most accurate to describe me as a mild "sudden onset", with "gradual worsening". I was able to work full-time for the first year and a half, although I had to give up more and more other activities (study, volunteer, sports, social) in order to do so. I should mention that during the most rapid decline, I was exposed to a toxic soup of chemicals during an extended office renovation. I was eventually diagnosed with multiple chemical sensitivity as well.

By the time I stopped working, I was moderate. Apart from being exhausted, and sleeping almost the entire time I wasn't working, cognitive problems interfered with doing my job. For example, I couldn't understand the English language in work documentation. And, I couldn't add three three-digit numbers together with a calculator and get the same answer twice. (Jen Brea's reference to "accountants who can't add" really resonated with me, although that was not my job.)

I attributed my problems to a period of extreme work demands at, and for several months after, onset. I expected to improve with rest. But, like so many of us, once I stopped living on adrenaline to keep going, I crashed. By the time I saw an ME specialist two years after onset, I was severe (his designation).

When looking at the longest lists of symptoms on the most stringent criteria (CCC or ICC, for example), I can say "check" to almost all of them -- but not all at the same time. For example, my period of extreme sensitivity to light, sound and smell is over, and I rarely experience what my doctor referred to as "petit mal seizures" these days. My problem with math has resolved, and I can understand what I read. But, my memory and concentration are horrible. As a result, I have difficulty learning new things. And, I've lost many prior competencies (eg. playing the piano, sewing).

Initially, I placed pain at the bottom of my concerns. This is no longer the case due to small fiber neuropathy. But otherwise, I don't always feel horrible. This improved state either allows me to recognize PEM, or is because I now adjust my physical and cognitive effort to avoid PEM -- a "chicken and egg" situation. Which came first?

These days, I'd describe myself as moderate when I pace myself adequately, with the potential for a rapid decline into severe if I don't. I've often been surprised at how what seems to be a minor expenditure of energy has made me much worse for an extended period of time (meaning years). And a few times I've been surprised to survive a short burst of intense activity or a period of extreme stress with few, if any, repercussions.

I guess the take-away message is this: One can't predict how this illness will progress, and there's no benefit in projecting how we are "right now" into the future. We're all different. Although our actions/lifestyle can influence the outcome, we're not in control. We can only try to make the best decisions in the moment with the information we have.

Do consider the effect cognitive effort has on how you feel, and at the very least, take regular breaks in your research efforts. Have you heard the term "aggressive rest therapy"? If not, take a look at the information available on-line -- many differing opinions, as usual. Kudos for your initiative in trying to find a solution. In time, "cause and effect" will become clearer, and you'll be the expert, on you.

Best wishes.
 
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Jenny TipsforME

Senior Member
Messages
1,184
Location
Bristol
"I now realize that for me, spending hours a day lying on the couch watching TV was not "pacing""
@nikefourstar cognitive pacing can be as important as physical pacing, but it is harder to recognise. Try to notice the subtly different demands of different activities. Even with TV there are different levels of concentration, try to mix it up a bit and be stricter on timing. I've written about this here https://tipsforme.wordpress.com/2014/07/01/resource-tv-prescription-pacing-from-laughter-to-boredom/

Audiobooks and podcasts can be less demanding.

Spending hours trying to find answers is something I still do, but it is especially tiring and can be counterproductive.

You need to find some way to properly relax when not asleep without going out of your mind with boredom. There may be a type of meditation that suits (or not it isn't for everyone) eg http://liveanddare.com/types-of-meditation/ or https://tipsforme.wordpress.com/2015/05/06/meditations-for-pain/
Even a gentle computer game can be a form of meditation
 
Messages
1
@nikefourstar Firstly I don't want to say I have ME because I've only been diagnosed with post-viral fatigue, and I'm just over two months into the illness, so very much a newcomer. For me this illness was gradual onset with several 'incidents' of unexplained illness over a year, then one day it suddenly hit me in full force in yes, a second. After that I was in bed for a month, and to be honest I would say it sounds like I was quite similar to you (frantically researching, going through boards, posting asking for other people's experiences (though not here)). After six weeks I started to improve slightly and was able to do more but after one glass of wine I'm now ill again.
 

lauluce

as long as you manage to stay alive, there's hope
Messages
591
Location
argentina
I do, it was approximately at 10 am while I was at school wen i was 13 yrs old. It started as a "pins and needles" sensation in my mouth. Over the span of one and a half year, paresthesia spreaded all over my body, my memory started malfunctioning, pain spread over every muscle and join and my energy levels dropped to pathological levels. Only more that 10 years later I developed post excertional malaise
 

purrsian

Senior Member
Messages
344
It is common to get PEM from cognitive or emotional efforts. For me, emotional experiences affect me the most. Spending so much time researching is good for your understanding of the illness, but it means you aren't really resting, as using your mind (and potentially stressing over it all too) uses up energy.

While many people have a virus or infection as the triggering factor, there are people like you who didn't. I've read about vaccines, surgery, extreme overwork and physical trauma causing the onset. Emotional and physical stress weaken our immune systems (and our bodies in general), especially when it's present over a long period of time. It sounds like your body was weakened from stress and overwork, then taking the medications the night before was the straw that broke the camel's back. I think that the onset involves the immune system becoming weakened, which is often due to a virus but can also occur with stress, vaccinations etc.

An important thing to note is that every person with CFS is different. That's why it's so hard for doctors and researchers to categorise and understand. Onsets are different, symptoms are different, progression is different... the list goes on. I know it must feel like you're the only one with that onset and lengthy severe stage, but try not to focus on those emotions as they are very draining. Stress reduction and emotional coping mechanisms are a really important part of dealing with a chronic illness. I try to think about my body and it's energy in this simplified way...

I can do things to reduce my energy needs (rest, pacing, ensuring sleep is best quality, stress management).
I can do things to increase my energy availability (supplements, meds, drinking enough water, eating good food).
Try to focus on finding strategies to reduce energy needs and increase energy availability. Stressing over how bad you are or what you're future will hold is completely understandable, but remember it's not productive and doesn't help - just makes you feel worse. So if you can try focus on creating strategies, it can feel like you're in a little more control and it does help :)
 

edawg81

Senior Member
Messages
142
Location
Upstate, NY
The morning of may 22 2016. The day i recovered from a small cold and my ME PVFS symptoms began and came moderate and now more significant. i regret trying to push through that week. Now i have never ending feverishness and extreme fatigue. :(
 

ahmo

Senior Member
Messages
4,805
Location
Northcoast NSW, Australia
First became 'chronically fatigued' after a virus. Never had full energy after this. But the collapse into ME came in the midst of a heatwave, attending a workshop in an overheated space. I was never the same.
 
Messages
24
Location
Cold Spring, KY
It was September 20th or 21st 2009 around 6 pm. I got violently ill, assumed it was flu. Recovered to about 80-85% by spring 2010, then got worse later that year. I've had days that I've gotten much worse and never recovered throughout it. June 12, 2012 was one, and April 6 last yr.
 

TigerLilea

Senior Member
Messages
1,147
Location
Vancouver, British Columbia
My CFS/ME hit very suddenly three days after starting on Penicillin for a very bad tooth infection. One minute I was waxing the leaves on my fig tree and the next second I had debilitating fatigue which has never gone away. It was as if a switch had been flipped from "on" to "off" - it was that sudden. It will be 26 years in March since I was hit with it. :(
 

PennyIA

Senior Member
Messages
728
Location
Iowa
Mine was also a gradual onset. However, it started after I suffered a Massive Bilateral Pulmonary Embolism that I got ill. I was fine, had severe blood clots in my lungs and as I could feel myself recover from that, it felt like I reached a point about five months after the health event when I was no longer in recovery, but starting to become more ill.
 

halcyon

Senior Member
Messages
2,482
Anyone else remember the exact moment, or our most people's brought on by having a virus first?
Both. Typical ME has a biphasic onset. Many will have a run of the mill viral infection, then seem to recover for a few days, then get hit with sudden onset ME. Basically the same as other virally triggered neurological diseases such as ADEM. The initial viral infection can be subclinical.

Mine was triphasic in a way. Had a severe gastro viral infection, then recovered for some days. Then had sudden onset myalgia and tachycardia, several days later had sudden onset vestibular neuritis, then some days later had sudden onset of the remaining ME symptoms.
 

Cohen2

Senior Member
Messages
119
Location
New Zealand
No but I do remember the first time I got severe PEM. I was feeling almost completely recovered after months of glandular fever and went for a bike ride with my friend. Went straight back to another month of all the glandular fever symptoms.
 

CFS_for_19_years

Hoarder of biscuits
Messages
2,396
Location
USA
Dec. 3, 1990 @ 10:00 a.m. I was at work and felt a cold coming on (fatigue, sweating). It turned out to be a severe flu that I never recovered from.
 

Sandman00747

Senior Member
Messages
106
Location
United States, Kansas
I took several hits before the beast finally took me down. But Oct. 29th, 1990 I was at work in the Oncology Research Division of an NCI Cancer Center and I started feeling a type of illness that I was certain that I had never felt before. That first hit turned into an eight day encephalitis. That was the first hit.
 
Messages
86
Yes, I was sweeping up my room in my university halls of residence and I suddenly felt really fluey and weak. It was quite dramatic. I came down with what I thought was flu shortly afterwards, recovered for about 3 weeks and then it hit me again. I was actutely ill for a very long time and couldn't walk properly. I eventually improved from this bout after 2 years, was functioning at about 90% for the next 5 years, then became extremely ill again after a series of colds.
 

SmokinJoeFraz93

Senior Member
Messages
194
Location
United Kingdom
Sorry to hear how you got sick. Mine was quite bizarre. I was nearly 18 stone, I gave up smoking and started intense exercise such as boxing. After a few months my muscles in my arms started getting heavier and more tired quickly. Then that followed throughout my entire body. It's like my body doesn't generate energy very well anymore. Then the heart and lungs started playing up. Then the joint pain, and finally the worsened mental health.

I'm 23 years old now and I can't exercise because I feel I'm intolerant to it.