Despite Our Losses, People with ME/CFS Want More
We've been cheated by ME/CFS and we all know it. That's a no-brainer, if you'll pardon the cognitive pun. And loss didn't just result from the bad things that befell us. It also encompasses the good things that just ... never came. The absence of bounty. Of wholeness. Of peace.
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Diagnosis Unknown - Story of CFS Recovery

Discussion in 'Alternative Therapies' started by Wayne, Nov 10, 2010.

  1. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

    Ashland, Oregon
    Below is Chapter 15 from a book entitled, "Diagnosis Unknown", by Randy Smith. The book, which is currently online (free) at the above link, chronicles Randy's wife's (Linda) journey through 5+ years of CFS. In a rather humorous manner, Randy describes their health journey through what many would consider "woo woo" alternative therapies. However, their journey culminated with them finding a diagnosis for Linda, which then led to complete resolution to her illness.

    I find Randy's writing style to be easy and enjoyable to read. The first 14 chapters lead to Chapter 15 which starts dealing with the resolution part of Linda's CFS. In short, they saw a man who did electrodermal screening, and who diagnosed Linda with three focal infections in her body. The main one was in her oral cavity which required cavitation surgery. Linda recovered quickly after having the recommended surgery done.

    I first read this book over ten years ago, but had virtually no money at the time to follow up on any of the things that worked for Linda. As I was reviewing some of this tonight, it reminds me of some of the higher priority things that I would like to pursue at this time, including accepting an offer from an acquaintance to do some complimentary SCIO work for me.

    Anyway, I thought Randy and Linda's story might be of interest to others here who are open to alternative therapies. It might be especially significant for some on this board who are considering the deleterious role of root canals and/or focal infections.

    I'm not certain about this, but I think most conventional MDs poo poo the idea of focal infections, unless they are major and easily identified. From what I can gather, identifying and adequately addressing them can resolve a lot of chronic health conditions.

    I think the moral of the story though is "persistence". Randy and Linda just never gave up, and persevered until they found their answers. I t seems everybody's individual answers will be different, but this story illustrates that it does pay to keep looking.

    Best to All, Wayne

    Chapter Fifteen -- Doug’s Diagnosis

    Here’s all we knew about Douglas Leber before meeting with him at his mother’s house two days after Christmas of 1993.

    He received training as a naturopathic doctor in Seattle and was a licensed acupuncturist and colonic therapist. Since his graduation from naturopathic college he had specialized in investigational biomedical research using EAV (electroacupuncture according to Dr. Volt). Leber had developed an investigational tool called the Computron. The Computron was allegedly capable of completing a noninvasive assessment of all systems of the body. A client would hold metal electrodes, and the operator of the Computron would test all acupuncture meridians, organs, and systems of the body. With the Computron Doug Leber would:

    1. Conduct a complete noninvasive physical exam and provide a printout of the results.
    2. Identify the root cause of symptoms.
    3. Test for toxic metals, chemical allergies, food allergies, parasites, and viruses.
    4. Identify subhealth conditions before they manifested on standard medical tests.
    5. Provide a course of action to restore the health of the body using homeopathics, herbs, vitamins, minerals, and dietary recommendations.

    Using the Computron to gather information, he would then look for confirming evidence in the individual’s medical history and symptoms in order to assess problem areas.

    Our initial consultation, which was supposed to last approximately two and one-half hours, would cost $500. This would include any initial treatments and homeopathic remedies. According to our information from Dr. Bart, Douglas Leber was also working with a biochemist on special formulas for chronic degenerative diseases including candida and Epstein Barr virus. The cost of these remedies, if prescribed, would be extra.

    This information, even though we decided to act on it, was confusing. The Computron, in the hands of Douglas Leber, purportedly could do everything we had been trying to do for the previous year and a half. It promised a diagnosis to the level of root causes and a course of treatment. How could it be that simple? Why didn’t every doctor have a Computron in his or her office? I was nearly a full-fledged advocate of alternative medicine although, as yet, it had not worked for us. The Computon, though, exuded the stinky sniff of quackery.

    I called Bart back to ask him how it worked. He told me he really didn’t know. It had something to do with electrical differences in the body. He also told me that Douglas Leber had seen eighteen people in Hawaii that week, many of whom were friends and acquaintances. We had a control group.

    “He travels all over the world,” said Bart.

    “Why don’t people come to him?” I wondered.

    “1 don’t know,” Bart replied. “Just make sure you keep that appointment.”

    Noble and Kendra were traveling with us to my parent’s house for Christmas. We kenneled the cats and loaded our Suburban, installing the third seat so Linda could use it as a bed. Kendra made a nest for her of quilts and pillows. We locked the house and headed north on Interstate 5. At rest stops we would laboriously remove Linda from the third seat, help squeeze moccasins onto her fat, swollen feet, and help her walk to the ladies room. She wore a skirt with an elastic waistband for easy access. Her fingers were so swollen and stiff she could not zip or button for herself. She could barely pull up and pull down.

    When we arrived at my mom and dad’s condo, Linda went straight to bed and, except for brief interludes, stayed there through Christmas, sleeping a lot, eating little, racked with pains. Each night, as had become our habit, she would wake me up once or twice to massage the particularly painful areas so she could sleep some more. Linda was gathering strength for her next adventure.

    Our appointment was set for 1:00 P.M. on the 27th, and we left before noon to drive the forty miles or so to Douglas Leber’s mother’s house. He didn’t live in Hawaii; his residence was somewhere in the southwest, and he was at his mother’s for Christmas before returning home.

    His directions were very clear, and we found the white farmhouse which sat with its outbuildings like an oasis surrounded by shopping centers. We arrived early. It was 12:30 P.M. and, at first, no one answered the back door, which was a screen door leading to a porch. From where I stood knocking I could see part of the kitchen, and at the end of the kitchen table sat a man holding onto a wire.

    Finally, a sixtyish woman with neatly curled and colored hair came to the door and invited us in. I waved to Linda to follow but had to go back to the car, as the door was too heavy for her to open by herself. We followed the smiling gray-haired woman into her living room. Once again, instead of finding ourselves in a modern medical clinic, we were in someone’s living room, looking for help.

    The house was decorated for Christmas with a large tree and hundreds of dolls, which Doug’s mother had collected from around the world. There were many large elf-like creatures standing near the fireplace and in corners and alcoves of the old house which added to the surreal aspect of this experience. Linda sat weakly on a couch and tried to make conversation with Doug’s mother—a lively, energetic woman who did her best to keep us company while we waited. And as we were to end up waiting for two and a half hours, she was able to relate her interesting life story and details of many of her travels. It was difficult for me to concentrate on her tales. I was anxious to get Linda hooked up to the Computron and find out what it did. Doug’s mother focused her energies on Linda, no doubt recognizing she needed a boost, and the two and a half hours passed relatively quickly while we waited for Doug to finish with his current client.

    Finally, as 3:00 P.M. arrived we were ushered into the kitchen where the Computron was set up on the kitchen table. Douglas Leber then appeared, a very large man dressed in loose beige clothing, his head covered with longish curly black hair, his face wreathed by a bushy black beard. I couldn’t guess his age. He was somewhere between thirty and forty. He was large, wide, substantial looking. His face, though obscured, was extremely kind and he radiated intelligence. He was not what I expected. Bait had provided no physical description. Linda took a seat in a kitchen chair, and I pulled one up beside her. I was lugging a gym bag full of vitamins and supplements, as Bart had told us Leber could check their efficacy on his machine.

    Doug Leber invited us to give him some background while he made himself a sandwich. He had worked through the lunch hour. The kitchen counters were strewn with the residue of a Christmas feast, including the partially gnawed carcass of a turkey which had taken on the dull brown color of leftover meat. I was disappointed that our latest health practitioner was not a vegetarian but had learned that vegetarianism was not a tenant of naturopathy. I told our story as Doug scooped dressing and gravy into a sauce pan and sliced some meat from the turkey’s breastbone for a sandwich. Thus, I had an adequate amount of time to relate our adventures while he ate. He chewed and nodded, asking few questions and when he finished, washed his hands, took a seat opposite Linda, and asked her to remove her shoes. A drop of gravy was stuck to his mustache on the left side of his mouth.

    I pulled my chair around so I was sitting between them. They faced each other and I was looking directly at the Computron. It was a computer with a monitor. Douglas Leber handed Linda a piece of copper attached to a wire which led to the Computron. Another wire led to a metal plate which looked like a grill for pancakes. The plate had a well in the center. Doug held a third wire in his hand which had a metal probe on the end. He began his procedure with no introduction or explanation. We had found our way to his mother’s kitchen; it was assumed that we knew why we were there.

    On the monitor was an outline of a human hand and a bar graph which rose and fell as Doug touched the probe at different spots on Linda’s fingers. The machine made a kind of whooping noise as the bars on the graph rose and dropped again. It was an eerie sound and, intuitively, Linda and I were able to differentiate between a “good” sound and a “bad” sound. Lots of bad sounds coming from the machine.

    Doug worked quickly and silently, occasionally asking a question, frequently laying down his probe to enter data on his keyboard. If I asked a question, he would stop and answer it clearly and in detail. He was an excellent, patient teacher. He was totally into his work, oblivious to time. The pictures on the screen changed as he probed and typed, the Computron whooped and, at intervals, he gave us expositions on the skin as an organ of elimination, Hering’s Law of cure, the problems of toxic burden on the liver, and the polarity of electrons in the blood.

    The hours came and went. Doug probed. Linda sat silently. I stared at the monitor. At 3:00 P.M. we had started what was advertised as a two and one-half hour procedure. At 6:00 P.M. Doug’s wife and mother slipped quietly into the kitchen, careful not to disturb his concentration, and removed covered dishes from the refrigerator and carried them back to the dining room. We continued with no breaks. As hunger swept over me, I quit asking questions in order to speed the process. Time was clearly of no concern to the inventor of the Computron. He would probe until the answers were revealed. He was in a healing zone.

    Suddenly, I noted the words “geopathic stress” appear on the screen. This startled me.

    “What’s geopathic stress?” I asked. I had unintentionally omitted telling him about Joyce and Mr. Mechem when I had recounted our medical history to him.

    Doug stopped and carefully answered the question. “There are often noxious emanations, radiations if you will, coming from the ground. These affect you most if they are located where you spend a lot of time—such as your bedroom. These radiations can come from a variety of sources. They won’t always make you ill but if you are ill they can diminish the strength of your immune system and keep you from getting well. Linda has severe geopathic stress.”

    “I don’t understand,” I said, playing dumb and wanting to hear more. “There’s something in our bedroom?”

    “Probably,” said Doug Leber. “What is it’?” I asked him. “Where is it?” Doug put down the probe and handed me a small piece of paper and a pencil.

    “Draw me a diagram of your bedroom,” he ordered. I quickly drew an outline of the bedroom showing the door, windows, and location of the bed. Doug picked up the diagram, laid it on the kitchen table, and placed his hand over it moving it back and forth.

    “What are you doing?” I asked.

    “I’m map dowsing,” he told me. Then he held his hand in front of Linda’s chest, palm out, and moved it back and forth. Turning back to the diagram he picked up the pencil and drew some lines. He picked up the piece of paper and showed it to us.

    “You’ve got an underground vein of water which runs sort of east and west through this end of the room,” he told us, indicating a line that ran across the head of our bed. “This is intersected by a Hartman Grid line, a magnetic field, which goes north and south. As you can see it intersects at this point. Who sleeps there?”

    “1 do,” said Linda.

    “The lines intersect right where your head hits the pillow,” said Doug. “An intersection of these noxious energies creates a hot spot which can be very harmful to health.” “What should we do?” I asked. “You need to move the bed as soon as you get home. That will get you off the top of these energies. You could also get some crystals and line them against the wall, here and here,” he said, indicating the points where the lines hit the wall.

    I was in a mild state of shock. For the third time in a month someone, first Joyce, then Mechem, now Doug Leber, had told us we had geopathic energies emanating from beneath the earth located in our bedroom. Two of the three, Mechem and Leber, had arrived at these identical conclusions using only a crudely drawn “map” of the house—or in Doug’s case, of the bedroom. Using only the power of their minds they were somehow able to tap into an information source which provided them details about geopathic rays located in our bedroom in Ashland, Oregon. Mechem was located fifteen miles away in Medford. But Doug Leber was sitting 500 miles away in Seattle. It had been amazing enough that Joyce could detect these things using her pendulum while in the room. Mechem, based on the fact that we had been referred to him by Joyce for a geopathic stress problem, could have made a guess that we had something going on in the bedroom. However, in Leber’s case we had not even raised the question of geopathic stress. He had detected the problem using the Computron and then quickly map-dowsed our bedroom, and had come to the same conclusion as Mr. Mechem.

    In that instant, I became a believer in dowsing and in Douglas Leber’s abilities. This was my first corroborated proof of the powers of telepathy, ESP, psychic ability, or whatever one wishes to call it. I knew that when we left that kitchen, we would have answers and remedies. This guy was for real. I experienced a wave of exultation.

    We had been at it for four hours. I was surprised that Linda was holding up, surprised she wasn’t complaining of cold feet. The probing continued and now it appeared that he was checking for remedies. I could see lists of names on the screen, names like lobelia, and as Doug moved his cursor down the list the Computron whooped and beeped. Doug bent over and rummaged through his bag and finally found some capsules. He placed them in the well on the metal plate and probed some more. He had Linda hold the copper wire next to her jaw. I couldn’t understand what was going on. I didn’t want to ask.

    He handed one of the capsules to her and poured her a glass of bottled water.

    “Take this,” he told her. Then he put another identical capsule in front of her. “Take this one in ten minutes.”

    “What is it?” she asked. “What’s it doing?” This was Linda’s first question in four hours.

    “Your blood is in left spin,” he replied. “This is a type of amino acid. It will spin your blood the other direction and help enable your liver to deal with toxins.”

    “That’s good,” Linda said. She was sitting up straighter in her chair, looking brighter than she had in some days.

    “I’m feeling better already,” said Linda, smiling at me. She took the other capsule.

    “Thank God for the placebo effect,” I thought, too hungry to ask about left-spinning blood.

    “Have you figured out what’s wrong?” I finally asked at about 7.30 P.M.

    “Just about,” said Doug Leber. “Now I’m figuring out what remedies to give you. My printer isn’t working,” he continued. “If you want to take some notes, I’ll tell you what we’ve got here.”

    Finally, after a year and a half, someone was going to tell us something. My hopes were high, my pencil was poised. Here’s what Doug Leber told us:

    “Linda has three areas of focal toxicity. A focus is an area where toxins have been stored by the body in an attempt to wall them off. This can take the form of infection or an abscess. The body can normally handle one focal infection without noticeable difficulty. It takes three to throw the body out of balance. Geopathic distur bance counts as an additional focus. So, in effect, you have four. You have an infection in your jaw (ostitis); there’s an abscess in your liver caused by E. histolytica, which is an amoeba you get from drinking water; and there’s a chronic hidden infection in your tear gland which could be caused by a combination of an ant bite and giardia—another amoeba. You’ve had this tear gland (or lachryrnal) infection for many years but your immune system was probably able to keep it in check until all the other problems developed. Now as far as the foci are concerned, natural medicine can assist with reducing toxicity, but if they progress beyond a certain point, as in the case of your jaw, surgery is the indicated procedure.”

    I was writing feverishly. Linda sat staring at Doug, rapt with attention, eyes watery.

    “I don’t find any evidence of candidiasis or tapeworm, so perhaps your ozone therapy was helpful there. But with all these infections dripping toxins through your body, the immune system is over whelmed, endocrine function becomes weak, digestion becomes inefficient, and as a result of all normal bodily functions and defenses getting out of balance, you continue in a downward spiral. Viruses that live in the body but which normally won’t cause problems begin to gain ground. So, in your case, Linda, I’m finding hepatitis A, Epstein Barr, mumps, and a flu virus— Grippe V ‘90. In addition, you have some metal toxicity from methyl mercury, gold, and lead.”

    “What causes me to ache so much?” she asked, on the verge of sobs.

    “A lot of it seems to be caused by the infection of the lachryrnal, the tear gland. Also, all of these toxins can cause allergic reactions, so it’s no surprise you’ve had such a variety of symptoms.”

    “What do we do?” I asked. Doug Leber was bent over, rummaging through a large black doctor’s satchel. It was very disorganized, and it was nearly five minutes before he found what he was looking for and spoke again.

    “Our pretreatment is going to focus on the liver. You’ve already taken an amino acid which will get your blood out of its left spin. We need to clean up the blood so the liver can do its job.”

    “Can a liver really regenerate?” I asked him.

    “It can if it isn’t substantially damaged. In Linda’s case the liver will heal. It will just take some time. Most important is to get cavitation surgery on the left upper second and third molars— numbers fifteen and sixteen.”

    “Where?” asked Linda.

    “You need to see a dentist who is a member of the Academy of Biological Dentistry. I’ll give you some names. You need to do this within six weeks.” “We need to give you some adrenal supplements and B vitamins to give you a boost.”

    At that moment activity seemed to pick up in the kitchen as Doug’s mother and wife tiptoed past the kitchen table to return dirty dishes. In the days before fancy clinics, when healers made house calls, this was, I supposed, how it was done.

    “Here is some B-6, pantothenic acid, and some adrenal formula,” Doug continued. “I’m going to give you four doses of an amino acid. You’ll take two within a ten-minute span every other day. I’m giving you an anti-hepatitis medicine which you take one each day for five days, then skip for five days, and then repeat one a day for five days. Also, I’m giving you some remedies which will knock out the Epstein Barr and flush out the toxic metals. Wait a couple of days to start these and take them at 4:00 in the afternoon. I’m also going to make you a bottle of Lugol’s Iodine water.”

    He went to the porch and came back with a large bottle of Crystal Geyser water, removed the cap, and from a small plastic vial, put about two drops into the bottle. He shook it and labeled it.

    “I want you to drink eight glasses of pure water every day. Crystal Geyser is the best. This is a very important factor in good health. Tap water has parasites. Good water has quality-controlled PH and oxidation/reduction sensitivity. . .the ions dissolve in water.”

    “We have a reverse osmosis system,” I told him. “That’s good.” “The filters need changing,” said Linda.

    “Why don’t you drink bottled water for awhile,” he suggested. “Drink two ounces of Lugol’s water a day. Measure it out; don’t guess. This will get your thyroid going. Try and take a coffee enema once a week to help flush out your liver.”

    “And move the bed,” said Linda.

    “Move the bed,” nodded Doug. “I don’t have my printer so can’t give you a printout today, but I will mail it to you. I’ll also be sending five homeopathic remedies and two botanicals. Those are included in the fee. The capsules are extra.”

    I had my checkbook out. “How much should I make this for then?” I asked.

    “Seven hundred dollars,” replied Doug.

    I wrote him a check while he wrote a receipt. He put the capsules in plastic zip-lock bags and labeled them. It was 9:30 P.M. We had been with him for five and a half hours! Doug had seen only two people that day. We had answers and remedies. We thanked him profusely. He acknowledged the thanks with modesty.

    “Get that cavitation surgery as soon as possible,” he told us, handing me a piece of paper with names and phone numbers. “Be patient,” he said to Linda. “You’ll have some ups and downs, but you will get well.”
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2013
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  2. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

    Ashland, Oregon
    Diagnosis Unknown Reviews

    Here's a link to some reviews of Diagnosis Unknown on Amazon:

    Diagnosis Unknown Reviews

    Below is the first review at the above link.

    Best, Wayne

    Review of Diagnosis Unknown

    This book inspired me to look into alternative medicine and subtle (and not so subtle) energy work.

    The author has a straight-forward writing style and this book moves along at a good pace for the reader. This is a very personal story and journey and had all the elements of a great suspense novel - great characters and story line, etc., the only difference being ... this is all true.

    So many books written about alternative therapies today are heavy-handed and decidedly one-sided against modern medicine.

    The author takes a lighter tact. He simply tells the story of how he and his wife were slowly pushed into alternative methods due to the continuing pattern of "handoffs" from one allopathic "specialist" practitioner to another. Allopathic doctors were simply unable to find the true upstream cause of his wife's condition (triggered by a spider bite).

    It took a lot of courage to seek answers outside mainstream medicine. It's hard to put your life in someone's hands, when that someone isn't a doctor. We're taught from young that doctors are the final frontier when something ails the body.

    But Randy and his wife weren't looking for PhDs and fancy degrees on wall plaques. They needed answers for a condition that took much of his wife's vitality and nearly killed her on several occasions.

    There is some New Age stuff about colonic and Reiki and wheat grass therapy but ultimately, these methods were only partially successful and didn't really address the root causes.

    If you're open-minded, you'll learn a little about radionics, subtle energy work and map dowsing, etc. You might come away with a different view of how our bodies really work that contradicts much of what we've been taught in medical literature and the media.

    This book opens up a new world that so-called modern scientific research and the medical establishment denies the existence of - subtle energy and all the implications of energy work and distance diagnosis and healing.

    One of the best books I've read - I couldn't put it down.
  3. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

    Ashland, Oregon
    More Free Downloadable Books

    I recently ran across a website that has some interesting free downloadable books. Thought I'd post a link in case anybody might be interested:
  4. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

    Ashland, Oregon
    Hi All,

    Here's another segment from the book, "Diagnosis Unknown". Chapter 15 (above in the first post) describes the diagnostic process which led to Linda Smith's seeking out a dentist to perform the recommended cavitation surgery.

    The part I'm pasting here gives a description of some of what transpired in the dental office during the surgery. I think this part is quite interesting, and thought it would make a nice complement to my original post.

    Best Regards, Wayne

    DIAGNOSIS UNKNOWN—Cavitation Surgery

    The problem still had not been resolved. Why? The root canal
    had not been extracted properly. The bone had not healed
    completely leaving small pockets (cavitations) in the bone. These
    cavitations became a home for toxins and infections.

    Dr. Meinig outlines a very specific protocol for removing a root-canaled tooth.
    This involves grinding out the periodontal ligament and the first
    millimeter of bone and flushing out the socket with a saline solution.
    This had apparently not been done when Linda’s root-canaled molars
    had been pulled. The periodontal ligament which normally holds
    the root of the tooth to its bony socket does not break down during
    healing. As the bone heals and fills in, small spaces are left which
    become filled with necrotic tissue and infection. The surgical removal
    of this tissue and periodontal ligament was the procedure Linda was
    undergoing while I studied dentistry.

    It was dark in the waiting room of the Camelback Dental Clinic.
    Suddenly, however, the light came on for me. The medical
    establishment, dentists included, were apparently hazardous to
    our health. Linda had originally been made ill by root canals.
    Her condition had been exacerbated by multiple visits to doctors
    and dentists who 1) extracted the root canals incompletely, leaving
    pockets of infection in her jaw and 2) prescribed many courses
    of antibiotics and steroidal drugs which stripped her body of
    healthy bacteria, allowing harmful bacteria to overwhelm her
    body’s ability to fight infection, toxins and environmental poisons.
    They compounded the problem by not having the ability to
    diagnose specific causes, leaving us wandering aimlessly through
    their obstacle course.

    After three hours, I asked how Linda was doing and the nurse
    invited me back. They were finishing up. Dr. Lee was a tall, serious
    man about my age. He explained that he had cavitated the three
    molars on the upper left side of Linda’s jaw. Doug had diagnosed
    two but Dr. Lee believed a third area was also involved. He was
    excited about his work and told me of a seminar he had just
    attended involving blood studies.

    Linda was worn out. Her jaw was packed with gauze. She was
    trying to sit up. “I think we got it all,” said Dr. Lee. It was a mess.
    Lots of cavities and tunnels. Really ugly stuff.”

    “It smelled pretty bad,” said Baxann, Dr. Lee’s assistant.
    “We like to get a biopsy, just to be safe. It costs $100 but it’s a
    good idea. By the looks of the material, I don’t think it was

    “I don’t think so either,” said Baxann.
    We were instructed to keep the packing on the stitches until the
    drainage stopped, given a packet of calcium, some Traumheel—
    a homeopathic medicine to aid healing—and something German,
    “Homeopathisches Arzneimittel,” described as homeopathic
    penicillin. Dr. Lee said it was excellent.

    I paid the bill. It was $1,200. They accepted my out-of-state check.
    Linda wanted an ice cream cone because she had been so good.
    We found a Baskin and Robbins on Camelback Boulevard and
    she ordered mint chocolate chip.

    When we arrived at her mom and dad’s, Linda took to her bed. The
    wound was draining. She thought it was bleeding and chomped on
    gauze and tea bags until the gum became, I thought, infected. A
    couple days after the surgery, I called Dr. Lee who advised us to
    report back for an inspection. We did. The incision was infected. Dr.
    Lee began treating the infection with injections of the homeopathic
    penicillin. We had to come back four times, every third day or so, for
    this treatment. The treatment, though painful, worked; the infection
    went away and Dr. Lee cleared Linda for travel.

    Before we had returned to Dr. Lee for the gum infection, Linda
    experienced a classic natural healing event. It had been our
    mistake to not let the cavitations drain thoroughly after surgery.
    As a result, toxins were still held in the jaw area. Linda had been
    extremely uncomfortable and her right index finger began to hurt.
    The skin began to redden and swell at the first joint. A blister
    began to appear, then to enlarge. I lanced it with a needle and a
    huge amount of pus drained from the joint of the finger,
    demonstrating that the body does attempt to move poisons as far
    away from the vital organs as possible.

    We thanked Dr. Lee for his help and I raised the possibility of
    removing Linda’s amalgam fillings. Dr. Lee gave us reference
    material to read and suggested it was a decision he could not
    make for us. He was whispering again, a clear indication that the
    ground was not completely safe. The good doctor did provide
    Linda with a prescription for “Clifford Materials Reactivity
    Testing,” a blood test which could predict patient sensitivity to
    various substances used in dental materials.

    When we arrived home there was a package of remedies from
    Doug Leber and a biopsy from the Robert C. Bird Health Science
    Center at West Virginia University. The diagnoses per the biopsy
    was: “Chronic osteonecrosis and chronic fibrosing osteomyelitis
    (consistent with NICO: neuralgia-inducing cavitational
    osteonecro sis), maxillary left second and third molar area.”

    According to the biopsy there was no evidence of malignancy.
    The biopsy completely confirmed Doug Leber’s EAV diagnosis.
    More important—the swelling around Linda’s left eye, which had
    diminished slightly following Doug’s initial treatments, entirely
    disappeared within two weeks following the cavitation surgery.
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  5. Victoria

    Victoria Senior Member

    Melbourne, Australia
    Interesting story, Wayne.

    Randy & his wife seem to have certainly got their money's worth in the amount of time the Healer spent with them.

    At one stage in the article you posted, I wondered whether this computron was similar in method to a Vega allergy machine which was used on me back about 20 years ago.

    Whatever the method...........healing is healing. I wouldn't care if it was faith healing or a placebo effect or something proven by science & research. Healing is a wonderful result in any 'chronic illness' sufferer's life.

    Thanks for taking the time to post it.
  6. hope love light

    hope love light

    East Coast, US
    Hi Wayne,

    This is a great post and I have started reading the is a page turner.
    I have had all of my mercury removed and never had a root canal....but the interesting thing is before my relapse in Oct 09 I went to the dentist in April 09 for work on an old molar.
    When he took the old filling out and was poking around he made a comment that it was worse than he thought in there, but he was not going to mess with the old packing. So after poking around a bit and scraping he just covered over and did the filling around 3 sides of the tooth.

    I have often wondered if this somehow contributed to my problem.... who knows.
    But I am going to find one of these Academy of Biological Dentists and have him go over this tooth issue just to be on the safe side.

    I also had a coincidence when I was reading this part of your post:
    It was dark in the waiting room of the Camelback Dental Clinic.
    Suddenly, however, the light came on for me. The medical
    establishment, dentists included, were apparently hazardous to
    our health. Linda had originally been made ill by root canals.
    Her condition had been exacerbated by multiple visits to doctors
    and dentists who 1) extracted the root canals incompletely, leaving
    pockets of infection in her jaw and 2) prescribed many courses
    of antibiotics and steroidal drugs which stripped her body of
    healthy bacteria, allowing harmful bacteria to overwhelm her
    body’s ability to fight infection, toxins and environmental poisons.
    They compounded the problem by not having the ability to
    diagnose specific causes, leaving us wandering aimlessly through
    their obstacle course.

    The phone rang and it was my dentist's office who did the original work
    saying they had a cancellation for a cleaning and would I like to come in tomorrow.

    I am going in for the cleaning, but I will not be seeing the dentist again as I am seeking a referral from my naturopath for a new dentist :)
    Anyway thanks for the post and I will continue reading the book!
  7. moblet

    moblet Unknown Quantity

    Somewhere in Australia
    That's vaguely similar to my experience with such machines. There are a few variations on the same theme kicking about, other names to look for include Listen Orion and Physiospect, both of which I've had run on me (only had two different machines used because it was a follow-up with the same practitioner who had upgraded from the former to the latter). The Physiospect comes from Russia and is apparently used in some hospitals there. In my case these machines did a wonderful job of identifying and eliminating some of my physiological burdens, the worst being a long-standing Rickettsia gut infection. So far not enough to spring into total recovery, but it's helped along the way.

    I recommend to anyone who is chronically ill and lacking a fully explanatory medical diagnosis to explore complementary medicine. It was an obvious path for me to take because I was a practising scientist, and no doctor I could find would investigate my illness with any degree of rigour, in spite of their claims to be the only "scientific" modality, so I was forced to go to other modalities to find practitioners prepared to consult in what I considered to be a scientific fashion, i.e. basing hypotheses on an adequate data set, entertaining multiple hypotheses, and separating their ego from their professional opinions. It also didn't help that the drugs I was being prescribed were making my condition worse and no doctor considered that to be of any importance. Funnily enough, since going to ME/CFS/FMS support groups I've noticed that all the attendees who say "I've been like this for 30 years" have never explored anything outside the medical establishment. I've also yet to hear anyone who's recovered say that the medical establishment was of any great help beyond the placebo effect of one's GP being supportive.

    It's taken the combined understanding of four different modalities, which I've had to integrate myself, to build a reasonably complete picture of how I got sick and how to get better. Through that process I've come to understand that there is some level of autonomic function that is invisible to the medical profession, but clearly visible to many complementary and alternative practices, including acupuncture, cranial osteopathy, kinesiology, dowsing, and these bio-energetic machines. It seems to me that all of these very different practices are homing in on probably the same fundamental process, and are able to interact with it, but since medical science can't see this it can continue to claim that these treatments are mere placebos. (Homeopathy is also operating on the same level, at least the first remedy I took did, although its practitioners can't physically measure the process in the patient's body.) In my experience both the primary tools of the medical profession - drugs and surgery - disturb this autonomic process. If one's autonomic processes are sound to start with, the body can accept and perhaps benefit from medical intervention. If not, it can't. I'm encouraged by the recognition of many researchers that the CFS family is characterised by autonomic dysfunction, and hope that they find something concrete before the establishment dumps that idea in favour of the next fad. I feel lucky to have found most of my answers and can see that many more answers would be found if those claiming to have a monopoly on "science" and "evidence-based medicine" could bring themselves to walk their talk, not least those on the front line.
    pamojja, Wayne and leela like this.
  8. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

    Ashland, Oregon
    Primal Reflex Relief Technique - Bio Cranial Therapy - Atlas Profilax

    Hi Moblet,

    Welcome to the forum! Thanks for your remarkable post, I really liked it; plus I read your other two posts you made today. The perspectives you share are very similar to my own.

    I noticed you mentioned head and neck injuries on one of your other posts. I thought I would give you a link to a post I made regarding some of my own experiences with Atlas Profilax, which I feel significantly improved my autonomic dysfunction. It might be right up your alley. :Retro smile:

    Primal Reflex Relief Technique - Bio Cranial Therapy - Atlas Profilax

    Again, welcome! I'll look forward to reading more of your perspectives and insights. I'm going to try to put more emphasis on trying some new therapies this year, and some of your experiences and knowledge could prove to be very helpful.

    Best Regards, Wayne
  9. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

    Ashland, Oregon
  10. moblet

    moblet Unknown Quantity

    Somewhere in Australia
    Thanks for your post & links Wayne. I've never heard of Atlas Profilax, which I presume was developed by a chiropractor. I have a few thoughts on it, which apply generally to many such interventions.

    I would describe Atlas Profilax as a tool as opposed to a toolset, in the same sense that Prozac is a tool of the medical profession. This triggers a range of simultaneous thoughts for me:
    1. Sometimes these things come about because a manual practitioner wants to achieve the kind of leverage that the pharmaceutical industry enjoys, by patenting and distributing something.
    2. I have got my best results from modalities that have big toolsets and practitioners who know which tools to use and how and when best to use them on any given patient. Atlas Profilax looks to me like a tool that any experienced cranial osteopath would have in their set, although one they would employ more gently. In fact I've found cranial osteopaths seem to have just about everything in their toolset when it comes to diagnosing and treating structural problems. There's a saying "give a small boy a hammer and he'll soon discover that everything he encounters requires pounding" - one-tool practitioners have the answer, they're just looking for the people with the right question. If your problem happens to require only their solution, you're in luck. If not, you just wasted your time and money, and, perhaps most critically, you learned very little in the process. It's pretty unlikely that a one-tool practitioner who can't help you, could reliably tell you who else could.
    3. An osteopath by the name of Upledger seems to be trying to do #1 with cranial osteopathy, by developing what he markets as Cranio-sacral Therapy. The notion here is that anyone can be taught to treat the cranial rhythm in a weekend course. Well, anyone can be taught how to mess with the cranial rhythm in a weekend, but learning how to diagnose and improve it takes many years of education and practice. Unfortunately many people confuse his craniosacral therapists with cranial osteopaths, thinking they'd be getting the same outcome, which is unfortunate. So I wonder if everyone who purveys Atlas Profilax really knows what they're doing to the body.
    4. Simple solutions work for simple problems. That example of the woman who was cured was a textbook case of someone who needed Atlas Profilax. She was perfectly functional until one day she moved her head in what sounds like a perfect manner to stress the atlas, something shifted, and suddenly she was disabled. So it was always likely that a short course of the right specific treatment would set her right again, but only until her body developed a more complex set of problems. Had she, say, had wisdom teeth extracted a couple of years later, and picked up some viral infection a couple of years after that, and perhaps thrown in a car accident for good measure, her trauma pattern would have become complex and a single, simple adjustment would be unlikely to work. They never work on me for this reason. If someone tried to shift my atlas that violently my body would fight to defend itself from the trauma, and even if they succeeded it wouldn't realign my entire body, as I grew into a dysfunctional pattern from infancy, I didn't get thrown into it by an event as a healthy adult. If you look up the history of chiropractic it's a similar story - guy hits head working under bench, goes deaf, therapist finds displaced vertebra in neck, corrects it, hearing returns. A textbook case but not one that presents to chiropractors every day, or applies to the majority of deaf people.
    5. Osteopathy has attempted research into their interaction with the ANS - which might inadvertently cover Atlas Profilax - but it's not at all convincing. They aren't physically dealing with the primary neurological processes (i.e. nerves), only with movement in fluid and membranes that occurs as a result. They can correlate these two things but not demonstrate how one causes the other. Until that connection can be nailed down they will never be able to prove how their interventions work. Acupuncture seems to be in the same boat - they can measure stuff and they know empirically how it affects the patient, but they can't prove how it occurs.

    Your results from Atlas Profilax indicate that you have, or hopefully had, a major structural issue. Have you gone to any other structural practitioners for further investigation and teatment?
  11. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

    Ashland, Oregon
    Atlas Profilax - Orthogonal Chiropractic

    Hi Moblet,

    I'm kind of wearing out at the moment, but wanted to get back to you on the above. From what I've learned, I would doubt that a cranial osteopath does an atlas profilax type of atlas repositioning, although I can't say for sure.

    Regarding your question about whether I've tried other structural practitioners: In short, I visited literally dozens of chiropractors over a 40-year period, trying just about every type of technique available. I also visited Osteopaths and acupuncturists, along with trying some physical therapy. Upper cervical chiropractic was most effective, specifically orthogonal chiropractic. Other techniques helped some, others were harmful.

    I made a fairly in-depth post on the ProHealth board in response to an inquiry about Atlas Profilax (AP). I'll paste it below, as it explains AP in a little more detail. I hope it will give you a little better insight into what it's all about. Please let me know if you have any specific questions after reading any of this. BTW, AP practitioners don't claim to be the final solution for all that ails us. They recommend we use other practitioners of all sorts to enhance the benefits that can be derived from AP.

    I might just add, about 4-6 weeks after I had my atlas repositioned using the Atlas Profilax technique, I visited my chiropractor, who is also an ND and cranial/sacral therapist. He gave me a quizzical look, and asked me how I was doing. When I answered my body was going through some remarkable changes, he replied, "I can tell, your whole facial structure has changed!"

    Best Regards, Wayne
    .................................................. ............

    Atlas Profilax - Orthogonal Chiropractic

    Hi Herbqueen,

    I'm sorry to hear you're going through such a difficult time. I hope you can find something that will help you at least halt this decline you're experiencing. Hopefully, you can find something to reverse it. Regarding Atlas Profilax (also known as AtlasPROfilax): It is something quite different from orthogonal chiropractic. I myself had regular orthogonal chiropractic therapy for many years. I found it quite helpful, and relieved a lot of my symptoms.

    Orthogonal Chiropractic is just one of about 10 techniques that fall under the umbrella of "upper cervical chiropractic". As far as I know, they are all quite gentle, and focus almost entirely on the upper cervical area, which I think would be about the top 3-4 vertabrae. Upper cervical Chiropractors generally take x-rays, and do some very precise mapping of your upper cervical area. They then choose an adjustment that is perfectly suited to an individual's unique situation. My own DC told me there are literally over a million different adjustments that might be chosen.

    Atlas Profilax is VERY different from either regular chiropractic or upper cervical chiropractic. Instead of "tweaking" the upper cervical vertebrae, they actually "reposition" the atlas only. I recently visited with a chiropractor in the Twin Cities who has made Atlas Profilax his primary focus of care. He shared with me some of his frustration of going to ongoing Chiropractic education. He says he sometimes has to restrain himself from standing up and telling the instructors they've got it all wrong!

    If I remember correctly, he says the chiropractic profession actually confuses the atlas with the axis, which is the SECOND cervical vertebra. So they never really get to the core of so many people's problems, which is the atlas being out of alignment. Very briefly, the atlas is actually somewhat "bowl-shaped" and extends out to behind both ears. The skull then sits on top of this bowl. I've heard that moving the atlas might be somewhat similar to moving a boulder. It doesn't normally move easily, but once repostioned in its proper alignment, doesn't move out of alignment easily either.

    Normally, there are pins that keep the atlas "locked" into place. When the atlas is "repositioned" by the Atlas Profilax technique, it's done so in a way so that the pins can keep it in place. Thus, Atlas Profilax is normally a one-time adjustment. I would compare this to all upper cervical techniques which do not "lock" the atlas into its proper position, and requires ongoing care, and which can be quite expensive. (The one-time cost for Atlas Profilax is generally $250; never any extra charge for a followup recheck or additional care).

    I could probably write for several hours about any number of aspects of Atlas Profilax, and how it has helped me immensely. That said, it did not "cure" my ME/CFS, nor did I expect it to. But it did greatly relieve many symptoms I experience, including vertigo, pressure in head, lots of neck pain and chronic headaches for 40 years, etc.; it also improved my digestion (and thus my immune system) in a major way, improved my posture, my balance, and much more. I've posted extensively on this board on the benefits I've experienced.

    For anybody who's interested, the chiropractor in the Twin Cities who does Atlas Profilax is Dr. Brian Elijah. He is apparently one of only three chiropractors in the world who do the AP. The several hundred other AP practitioners, mostly in Europe, work through their own specialty, oftentimes as an ND or massage therapist. My own hope is the the Chiropractic profession would embrace Atlas Profilax in a major way, which would make it more readily accessible to the general public.

    Good luck Herbqueen with whatever steps you choose to take next. I think it's good that you're considering Atlas Profilax. My own perspective is that it is a very good starting point for trying to improves one's health. For many people, I believe it has the potential to relieve chronic and often enormous stress from the body (and especially cranial nerves). It did for me.

    All the Best, Wayne ​
  12. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

    Ashland, Oregon
    Cranial Nerves - Vagus Nerve - Digestion - Atlas Profilax

    Here's another major post I did on AP. The following will take you to the entire thread:

    Cranial Nerves - Vagus Nerve - Digestion - Atlas Profilax



    2/3/08 1:43 AM Cranial Nerves - Vagus Nerve - Digestion - Atlas Profilax
    Hi All,

    Cautionary Note: This is a fairly long post.

    Last summer, I received an Atlas Profilax treatment and posted fairly extensively about my experience on a thread entitled Atlas Profilax Worked / is Working Very Well for Me. Real briefly, Atlas Profilax is a one-time treatment that permanantly aligns the uppermost vertabra called the Atlas.

    One area that I haven't posted on is how I have come to believe this treatment released a lot of compression on my vagus nerve, and perhaps other cranial nerves as well. There's a bit of a story to this, so if you'll bear with me...

    I noticed in the days immediately after getting my treatment that I was feeling unusually hungry. And when I did eat, it felt like I was really "wolfing" down my food. In a way, it almost felt sort of primal.

    A couple weeks later, Heartprints posted on my above thread and mentioned how she had gotten extremely hungry afterwards. In her words, "I got extremely hungry after and food tasted better than ever. Been pigging out all day."

    I eventually did some research on cranial nerves, and discovered there are 12 cranial nerves that descend down from the brain stem through the first cervical vertebra (the Atlas). All of these nerves have numerous functions, but the functions of the vagus nerve caught my attention.

    It described how the vagus is the longest of the cranial nerves, traveling downward from the brainstem all the way to the throat, heart, and digestive areas. So it's degree of functionality has a direct impact on all of the organs involved. It described the function of the vagus nerve in the GI tract as having an "innervating" effect, meaning, giving energy to.

    So I seemed to have found the answer to the mysterious hunger that both Heartprints and I experienced. But as the weeks and months went by, I noticed more subtle and not so subtle improvements as a result.

    Because my digestion was now considerably improved, I was blowing my nose way less and coughing up much less amounts of phlegm. And as my digestion improved, so also did my immune system function. I'm not an expert in this area, but it has long been my understanding that the GI tract is a major portion of our immune system.

    I have long dealt with what I have considered to be viral overload symptoms, and was happy to discover that these symptoms improved by approximately 75%. What I feel I've learned from my experience is the following:

    Structural problems, especially if it involves the vagus nerve, can cause digestive problems. These in turn can cause absorption problems, create nutritional deficiencies and eventually a degree of immune system dysfunction. This all together I feel can create a vulnerability to all kinds of pathogens...some of which may be responsible or partly responsible for some of the symptoms of ME/CFS and/or FM.

    I feel some of this information may relevant to readers here who have done, are doing, or are considering doing anti-viral or anti-biotic treatment for various pathogenic conditions. My understandng is that these treatments are not expected to fully eradicate any infection that may be present in the body, but to reduce the pathogenic load. That in the end, our bodies' own immune system must land the knock out punch.

    I'm not an expert on this so I would gladly stand corrected if somebody feels this is not the case. But it would seem that the more we can do to support our digestion and immune system function, including removing associated structural blockages, the greater the likelihood of success for those doing the anti-viral and antibiotic treatments.

    Another thing I feel is important to note is that the vagus nerve is also responsible for heart rate and stroke volume. This may be of particular interest to those who are interested in impedance cardiography tests which evaluate heart function and stroke volume.

    The following website:

    has a diagram of the 12 cranial nerves and lists some of the functions of each. Any of these many functions can become impaired by a compressed or compromised cranial nerve. Other factors such as Lyme disease, etc. can also have major effects on the cranial nerves. Tansy seems to have good knowledge on some of these factors.

    There's actually much more I could get into on this subject, but it's late and I'm wearing out. My hope is that this will serve as a catalyst for others to delve into the somewhat fascinating area of cranial nerves and how their functionality can affect our health in numerous ways.

    Tansy posted on another thread the 12 cranial nerves and some of the functions associated with each. I pasted this information below for your reference.

    Regarding Atlas Profilax: I believe this treatment to be one of the best starting points for addressing some of our health issues. Besides being able to possibly address a degree of immune system dysfunction as mentioned above, other reasons include:

    1) Relatively inexpensive ($200-$250) 2) One-time procedure so one-time only expense 3) Has the potential to produce significant improvements 4) Can enhance the effectiveness of many other therapies

    Regards to all,


    P.S. I think it's possible that the Atlas Profilax treatment also reduced pressure on some of my other nerves that are associated with swallowing.


    Twelve pairs of nerves, which branch out from the lower surface of the brain extend around the body, are each associated with a different brain function. At any stage of disseminated Lyme disease, any of these nerves may lose their ability to conduct electrical impulses properly, leading to cranial nerve palsy, commonly called paralysis in areas controlled by that pair of nerves. Cranial nerve palsy is the second most common Lyme neurological condition.

    Here is what may go wrong with the twelve pairs of cranial nerves.

    I. OLFACTORY: There may be loss of smell, or smells may be overly intense or noxious.

    II. OPTIC: Partial or total loss of vision may occur.

    III. OCULOMOTOR: The eyelids may droop, the eyeball may deviate outwards, or the pupils may become dilated. Some patients with a malfunctioning oculomotor nerve may squint involuntarily or see double images.

    IV. TROCHLEAR: The eyeball may rotate upwards, and outwards or double vision may occur when looking down.

    V. TRIGEMINAL: Pain or numbness in parts of the face, scalp, forehead, temple, jaw, eye or teeth has been reported. The muscles used for eating may become paralyzed or dysfunctional, making it difficult to chew, and the jaw may deviate toward the paralyzed side.

    VI. ABDUCENS: The eye may deviate outwards, and excessive squinting or double vision may occur.

    VII. FACIAL: The improper functioning of these nerves can result in Bell's Palsy on one or both sides of the face. Characteristic problems include facial numbness or pain and paralysis of the muscles, sometimes leading to difficulties in chewing or a tendency to dribble food. Patients are unable to wrinkle their foreheads, the lines on the forehead and nose may become abnormally smooth, and the eye droops. An inability to make tears has also been reported. In addition, the jaw deviates to the paralyzed side, and hearing loss can occur on the affected side. Tooth, ear, and jaw pain has been reported. Disruptions of the mucous membrane in the front two-thirds of the tongue result in loss of taste.

    VIII. VESTIBULOCOCHLEAR: Hearing disturbances such as ringing in the ear or full or partial hearing loss may occur. Equilibrium disturbances such as dizziness, vomiting, or reeling are also associated with nerve dysfunction.

    IX. GLOSSOPHARYNGEAL: Problems can occur with the mucous membranes in the back one-third of the tongue, leading to abnormal taste sensations, such as excessive sourness or bitterness, in that region. Improper functioning may also result in difficulty swallowing and paralysis of the glottis, a piece of tissue that ordinarily prevents you from inhaling food into your lungs or swallowing air.

    X. VAGUS: Dysfunction of the muscles in the throat, shoulders, and back may create difficulty in swallowing or talking. Drooping shoulders and an inability to rotate the head away from the dysfunctional side may also occur. Malfunctions within other branches of this nerve may cause heart problems (including palpitations and a rapid pulse); breathing difficulties (including slow respiration and a sense of suffocation); a persistent cough; paralysis of the glottis; vocal cord spasms or paralysis (possibly resulting in an unusually deep voice, hoarseness, or a weak voice); and gastrointestinal disturbances (typically, constant vomiting). These nerves also affect the liver, spleen, kidney, thyroid, testes or ovaries.

    XI. SPINAL ACCESSORY: This nerve pair can be associated with disrupted function or paralysis of the upper back and neck. Back spasms and the inability to tilt the head to the shoulder or to rotate the head in either direction can also occur.

    XII. HYPOGLOSSAL: One side of the tongue may be partially or fully paralyzed, and the tongue or larynx may deviate toward the paralyzed side, with a resulting slowed articulation, thick speech, and difficulty swallowing.

    Other nerve-related symptoms that can occur at any time during the course of Lyme disease include:

    Diminished reflexes.

    Sharp, shooting pains that radiate down the arms, legs or back.

    Areas of numbness, tingling, prickling or heightened sensitivity.

    Poor muscle coordination, muscle weakness or paralysis, involuntary muscle twitching, progressive muscle weakness, and movement disorders, including abnormal movements of the arms and legs and gait problems.
    [This Message was Edited on 02/03/2008]
    SherDa likes this.
  13. moblet

    moblet Unknown Quantity

    Somewhere in Australia
    Thanks muchly for those comprehensive links Wayne. Don't feel you have to reply promptly on my account - my life runs on a geological time scale too, so if you reply three months later I'm just as likely to think you'd replied next day :thumbsup:

    I googled and there are some people doing AP here in Australia too. It looks like it realigns C1 relative to the occiput, which I must admit I would have thought was something chiropractors would do, as I thought they were trained to work with every joint in the cervical spine. I gather then that chiropractors are not trained to work north of C1 itself. I went to several chiropractors many years ago and while I think one of them was vaguely aware that something wasn't right, none of them cottoned on to the fact that I had some serious structural problems going on. Ditto the regular osteopath I saw before I found the cranial ones. What limits chiropractors (apart from the percentage of the profession whose primary interest is in making money) is that the cranium is a black box to them. They get fascinated with C1 & C2, and I think this is because it's the first place that cranial problems become apparent in the spine (e.g. the dura mater's first waypoint going south is C2, and if there's too much tension C1 is the meat in the sandwich), and it's the closest they can get to accessing those problems. All I can say is that cranial osteopathy of the Sutherland school explicitly recognises and directly treats structural imbalances in the cranium as well as the rest of the body, and is cognisant of the physiological consequences thereof, and I'm not aware of any other modality that ticks these boxes, so I recommend to anyone with probable structural issues to try it. (Biodynamic osteopathy is also trs cool, an extraordinary experience, and fantastic at calming the ANS, but I'm not convinced it's aggressive enough for cases like mine; I find it makes my body too comfortable with its dysfunctional state.)

    If the atlas does indeed work the way the AP people claim, then atlas repositioning looks to be a very valuable exercise. Sieve, sorry, memory permitting, I will ask my osteo about this joint next time I see him, and also get a status report on my occiput. The first cranial osteo I saw, in my first treatment, was staggered at how deformed my occiput felt, but that was some years ago, and I don't know how much of that was an anatomical and how much was a functional observation. I know my own atlas feels very unstable lately but until two years ago the joints either side of it were pretty much frozen stiff, and any increase in mobility initially causes pain. It still hasn't found a normal range of motion. It's also getting squished by too much tension between the skull and C2, which as of recently I can feel quite directly.

    Really interesting that you mentioned the vagus nerve. My vagus nerve is being leaned on and I have to wonder, given its crucial role in regulating lung, heart, digestive, and vascular function, if this is what causes much of my dysautonomia. I also sometimes wonder if a compromised vagus nerve is the culprit in a great many cases of dysautonomia. One of the interesting things about the vagus is that it forges its own unique path in exiting the skull. It has its own little hole for doing so, and this hole is next to the junction of the occiput, which is the foundation of the entire skull, and the sphenoid, which is the foundation of the face. If the joint between these two bones is compressed then the vagus nerve can easily get compromised. In my case these two bones are jammed too tightly together, in a skewed fashion. One of the things the osteos are gradually working their way towards is getting that joint mobile again, something they can't do until all the strain maintaining its existing state eased. In the meantime I have some very specific dysfunctions, at least one of which I can "switch off" by applying specific torsion to my skull (basically bracing against my lower jaw and twisting the top of my head anticlockwise). I have a chronic mucous drip at a specific spot in my lungs for example. It used to be constant, now it's episodic, but when it occurs, if I twist my skull correctly, it stops immediately. When I stop applying the torsion, the drip immediately returns. All of this is occurring from the occiput up, the atlas is not involved. Describing this phenomenon is guaranteed to put a blank look on the face of any doctor!
  14. Vitalic

    Vitalic Senior Member

    what clinical trials have been performed on the "computron"? what are the scientific mechanisms behind it? i've been seen by someone that tested me for allergies using some kind of homeopathic machine, it was obvious pseudo-science, the practitioner couldn't even explain how it worked. how do you know the conclusions reached were not a coincidence and that if someone else followed advice from the same source they might not receive completely contradictory advice?

    the problem with this illness is because there are no clear cut answers people become prone to abandoning medical science and exploring "alternative" or "complimentary" medicine. there is no such thing as alternative medicine, only medicine that hasn't been proven to work. the second a treatment is proven to work it ceases to be alternative and just becomes medicine. it pains me to see people throwing money at these tenuous and untested remedies.
  15. Sallysblooms

    Sallysblooms P.O.T.S. now SO MUCH BETTER!

    Southern USA
    Regular medicine has done little for CFS. I have had wonderful help with integrative medicine. Supplements help, many are used daily in hospitals, and doctors that are not ignorant also use them daily. You do not throw money away at all when you give your body the supplements it needs to be strong. You do have to understand what to buy, amount and brands. Having an integrative MD is great.

    Sure there are plenty of strange things that do not work, I have not done those, but supplemetents do work.
  16. moblet

    moblet Unknown Quantity

    Somewhere in Australia
    Vitalic, your views are extremely simplistic and under-informed. To give you some examples:
    No surgeon can explain why the body heals back towards its original form, but that doesn't stop them cutting people open, or you believing in what they do. Practitioners are practitioners, not theoreticians.

    A great many of us here receive a different dx every time we go to a doctor. That doesn't quite meet scientific standards of reproducibility.

    Too simplistic. To prove that something works medically you have to demonstrate effect on a specific medical condition. Different modalities use different definitions and can prove efficacy against their own definitions, just as the medical profession can.

    Look up the history of Helicobacter pylori, a very simple causal relationship that also, being a germ, fits right into the medical model. At a rough guess it took about 380,000,000 seconds for that to become medicine.

    You said it right there. Science and medical practice are not always the same thing. Do not confuse them. Don't blindly "believe in science" either. Think critically about it.

    To relieve pain, stop looking.
  17. Ian

    Ian Senior Member

    Chapter 17, cavitation surgery. Having gangrene cut out of your jaw certainly would cure you of CFS. Nice to see other people have gone through the same as me. Shame there are so few dentists in the world that do cavitation surgery.
    Wayne likes this.
  18. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

    Ashland, Oregon
    I got a newsletter today from "The Better Health Guy", who just recently had cavitation surgery. Thought I would post that part of his newsletter here.

    Bye Bye Cavitations....


    I went to an alternative medicine conference hosted by Dr. Simon Yu MD in St. Louis, MO in September. I had met him a couple of times before and was always interested in a consultation. Fortunately, everything fell into line and I was able to see him the day before the conference. I've previously blogged about that experience here.

    The net of it was that he felt I had a high probability of having a dental issue in the areas where I had previously extracted wisdom teeth. He felt the highest likelihood was with the lower right which was in fact the one that got a dry socket years ago when they were removed.

    Cavitation surgery was the one thing I was hoping to never have to do, but I did not want to ignore something that could be an important next step. I had cavitation surgery on two wisdom tooth extraction sites in late October. While it has only been four weeks since the procedure, I'm optimistic that this will be another positive step forward as it is one less thorn for the body to have to accommodate.

    I have often been asked about Dr. Yu, and my interactions with him and his staff were superb. His primary areas of focus are outlined in his book Accidental Cure which I highly recommend. To learn more about his work or to schedule an appointment, you can find his web site here. I send gratitude for the piece of the puzzle that he has played in my continuing journey.
  19. Seven (formerly lnester7)

    Seven (formerly lnester7) Seven

    what symptoms do u get in the mouth if u have cavitation???
  20. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

    Ashland, Oregon
    It can create a lot of oral and/or facial pain, I believe especially when it involves the trigeminal nerve. But they apparently often don't have any overt, noticable symptoms at all, which is why so few people think of it as a possibility for their health problems; which can often be severe.

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