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Choline on the Brain? A Guide to Choline in Chronic Fatigue Syndrome

Discussion in 'Phoenix Rising Articles' started by pattismith, Jan 3, 2018.

  1. Violeta

    Violeta Senior Member

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    Thank you pattismith for the original post. I have been taking choline for a couple of days and trying to find information about it. Cort's article is very good, and so is a lot of the information in this thread. Thanks to all for sharing.

    With respect to the basal ganglia, one aspect of the diseased state may in some cases be copper. Could mast cell granulation be considered? I haven't had time to read the two pdf's in @Learner1 's above post, but I think this the oxidative stress is a big part of this. Also, hypoxia and hypoglycemia can cause mast cell degranulation. Not saying that this is the angle from which it's necessary to discuss this part of the topic.

    https://www.hindawi.com/journals/omcl/2014/147251/

    This also involves calcium deposits in the brain.
    https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn19711-calcium-causes-brain-cell-loss-in-parkinsons/

    One product offered at www.mybiohack.com is a product for mast cell degranulation in the brain. Taking copper chelators such as quercetin and luteolin along with the choline might be beneficial. Although maybe simply taking the copper chelators alone would get to the root of the cause. I don't know.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2018
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  2. prioris

    prioris Senior Member

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    Chronic lithium treatment was found to robustly reduce glutamate-induced excitotoxicity mediated by N-methyl-D-asparatate (NMDA) receptors. This effect was at least partly due to lithium’s ability to inhibit the influx of calcium, which mediates NMDA receptor activity.

    lithium orotate helps protect the brain from negative effects of calcium
     
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  3. prioris

    prioris Senior Member

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    i wonder if this could be helpful and I wonder how it effects choline. could it be the brain calcium homeostasis that could be a root cause ... trying to come at problem from different way

    Apoaequorin is a type of calcium-binding protein found in jellyfish that through scientific research has been shown to potentially support memory and verbal learning in some. Quincy Bioscience, the manufacturers of Prevagen stress the fact that Apoaequorin is most effective for seniors who already experience mild symptoms of cognitive decline.
    Apoaequorin works by mimicking the mechanism of endogenous calcium in the brain.4 Endogenous calcium is an important nutrient that supports brain function by ensuring that cytosolic calcium levels stay low. Why does this matter so much? When cytosolic calcium levels spiral out of control, brain cells become less capable of effective communication and functioning. In other words, the performance of neural cells deteriorates, leading to impaired cognitive function. Apoaequorin contains the vital compounds to counteract this occurrence and to make sure that cytosolic calcium levels remain low.

    It will only help someones memory for those who actually have a calcium homeostasis problem in brain

    i didn't realize this
    Lipoic acid increases acetylcholine (ACh) and choline acetyltransferase (ChAT) and decreases acetycholinesterase (AChE) in the hippocampus (R).
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2018
  4. prioris

    prioris Senior Member

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    one can try out Prevagen and get their money back if it doesn't work
    but it must be bought from an authorized seller and save the receipt

    http://www.prevagen.com/retailers/
    it has both retail and online seller list. i bought mine at the retailer cvs
    i bought the extra strength ...
    just google ... prevagen money back guarantee for instructions
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2018
  5. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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    You may want to check out this review which says there's no evidence it gets to the brain and they've had many adverse warnings. Consumer Labs is dubious, too.

    https://www.dietspotlight.com/prevagen-review/

    But if there's a money back guarantee...
     
  6. prioris

    prioris Senior Member

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    The court suit against Prevagen was BOGUS. The suit was thrown out of court in Oct 2017.
    The suit was brought by a government entity. That should be a red flag right there. They say people had strokes from this. How would they be able to prove it was Prevagen if they were taken other pharmaceuticals or they weren't already destined for a stroke.

    Anecdotal evidence on amazon is very strong and there are over 600 reviews just on one extra strength product. That's as valid as scientific evidence if not more. So it works for a lot of people.

    It addresses a particular problem. It won't be useful if one doesn't have that problem. There is no easy way to see if we have that problem. One way I diagnose things is try the cure.
    Calcium is one of things that cause excitation of neurons. Too much will be a bad thing.
    Like any supplement, we experiment with it and see if it works for us. As far as adverse affects, read all the negative reviews and keep a watch out for any reported symptoms.

    Many brain supplements have very adverse side effects on me and excess choline may be the reason why. If I say take some vitamin C. That may seem innocuous but there are I think 1 in 8000 people where it may be a bad idea. We all have different risks for various things. I have to eliminate a lot of foods from my diet due to the poisons in them. I'm looking for a diet where I eat hardly anything but get sufficient calories.

    In the case that it has unwanted side effects, you just stop taking it and get your money back. Not many products like this offer money back guarantee so financial risk is close to zero. Bogus products don't do this.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2018
  7. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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    Everything we put into our bodies does something. As you well point out, they have different effects on different people. As patients, it behooves us to do research and understand the pros and cons.

    I recently had a serious and rare reaction to an innocuous and commonly prescribed blood pressure drug which caused me to lose most of my platelets, red and white blood cells, and hemoglobin. I've also reacted to arsenic which is a contaminant in most commonly sold magnesium supplements. So, I tend to be a bit suspicious of anything new.

    And, for what its worth, what's helped my memory the most has been finding and treating hidden chronic infections with Valcyte, as well as getting adequate B12 and NAD+.

    The brain has many factors that affect it.

    Thank you for sharing your knowledge on this one product.
     
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  8. jason30

    jason30 Senior Member

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    I am using choline bitartrate for a year know. It gives my memory back, better blood flow and is good for my fatty liver.
    Choline bitartrate is very important for me.
     
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  9. Violeta

    Violeta Senior Member

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    I started taking choline bitartrate a little over a week ago and am finding it very helpful, too. It helped me be able to stand without feeling like I was going to collapse. I don't know if it was POTS or not, I just go by symptoms. It also has helped me sleep better.

    Yesterday I was reading about it and the site also mentioned taurine. It seems as though taurine has different action and that it would be helpful to take it along with the choline. I'm not sure about the timing, whether to take them together or at different times of the day.
     
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  10. jason30

    jason30 Senior Member

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    I have this since a few weeks, very weak legs and even 1 time I collapsed. Choline helps me with it as well.

    I love taurine! It makes more bile and is good for liver phase 2. Though it´s a sulfur containing amino acid.
     
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  11. Sundancer

    Sundancer Senior Member

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    that sounds interesting, I get sick from sulfurfoods like onions ( oh...how I would like to eat onions, and garlic..)
    so I shied away from taurine. But this remark makes me think I might give it a try.

    both bile-production and phase 2 need a helping hand.
     
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  12. jason30

    jason30 Senior Member

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    Just found out that choline supplies methyl groups for methylation. Source
    This can contribute to the benefits as well.
     
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  13. jason30

    jason30 Senior Member

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    I also have a sulfur-intolerance. Molybdenum helps me with that.
     
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  14. Sundancer

    Sundancer Senior Member

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    it's in my cupboard, slowly adding several things, this is one of them. Good to know that t may help with the sulfur thing.
     
  15. prioris

    prioris Senior Member

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    FYI
    best supplements for liver
    Siliphos
    Polyenylphosphatidylcholine
     
  16. Violeta

    Violeta Senior Member

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    I didn't realize vitamin C was involved.

    "Symptoms of vitamin C deficiency, such as poor wound healing and lethargy, result from impairment of these enzymatic reactions and insufficient collagen, carnitine, and catecholamine synthesis (see Deficiency). Research also suggests that vitamin C is involved in the metabolism of cholesterol to bile acids."
     
    Learner1 likes this.
  17. trsnorth

    trsnorth

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    I was on clozapine for 5 years. The drug made me worse. I wonder how much psychiatric drugs has done bodily damage to me.
     
  18. 1gooddog

    1gooddog Senior Member

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    Olympic Peninsula, WA
     
  19. 1gooddog

    1gooddog Senior Member

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    Please, how do you take the ancient therapeutic Boswellia oil?
     
  20. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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    I take either Thorne Research Boswellia or BosPro by EuroMedica, 1-2g three or four times a day when I have the stiff neck and screaming headache that can come with IVIG. This and Quicksilver Colorado Hemp Oil are pretty effective in managing the symptoms.
     

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