CFS vs ME comparison chart

[hixxy]

CFS was in fact "created" . it was created firstly by making up a name and secondly by picking certain symptoms to put under that name (while leaving out other symptoms) to create a 'new" illness known as CFS.

I guess all diseases were "created" then. I would actually call this describing an illness. Even ME would have gone through a similar process (as virtually every other described illness has).

 

[slysaint]

I was looking up some info on PEM and must say, given the whole PACE thing, was surprised to find this on the NHS website:
NHS website

Exercising can make symptoms worse. This is called post-exertional malaise, or "payback".

Shame they don't read their own information.

 

[taniaaust1]

I guess all diseases were "created" then. I would actually call this describing an illness. Even ME would have gone through a similar process (as virtually every other described illness has).

true but I'd say that most other diseases are fairly simple to describe their usual symptoms etc. This is quite different with ME/CFS as there are so many different symptoms and many of these vary in us, so depending on what symptoms they choose to describe and what they leave out, it may end up sounding like quite different illnesses and actually may be different illnesses

 

[medfeb]

I guess all diseases were "created" then. I would actually call this describing an illness. Even ME would have gone through a similar process (as virtually every other described illness has).

To me, the difference is that in the case of other diseases, they are describing the specific symptoms that characterize that disease and differentiate it from other diseases.

But in the case of CFS as defined by Oxford and Fukuda, the only symptom that is required is medically unexplained chronic fatigue. Oxford doesn't require any other symptoms at all while Fukuda requires any combination of 4 of 8 symptoms, most of which are non specific. Both allow the inclusion of mental illness. Notably, there are 163 unique combinations of Fukuda symptoms but only 20% include PEM which is required in ME definitions.

IMO, basing the description of a clinical entity solely on "medically unexplained chronic fatigue" is not scientifically valid. Chronic fatigue is ubiquitous and ill-defined so that doesn't contribute to identifying patients. And there's no scientific rationale that I know of for grouping together all "medically unexplained" fatiguing conditions and studying and treating them as the same thing. It can't help but be a waste bin diagnosis that reinforces a psychogenic view of the disease.

 

[JaimeS]

Both allow the inclusion of mental illness.

Fukuda (1994) specifically states that depressive disorder folk and those with several other mental illnesses should be excluded.

Conditions that Exclude a Diagnosis of CFS

3. Any past or current diagnosis of a major depressive disorder with psychotic or melancholic features;

• bipolar affective disorders
• schizophrenia of any subtype
• delusional disorders of any subtype
• dementias of any subtype
• anorexia nervosa
• or bulemia nervosa

-J

 

[medfeb]

Fukuda (1994) specifically states that depressive disorder folk and those with several other mental illnesses should be excluded.

Not all depressive disorders and not all mental illnesses. Fukuda explicitly states that nonpsychotic or non melancholic depression plus anxiety disorders, somatoform disorders, and neurasthenia are not exclusionary.

 

[wastwater]

Focusing on Encephalomyelitis,this is known to include varying neuropsychiatric effects imagine how bizarre it would be to say if you have severe neuropsychiatric effects that rules you out of having encephalomyelitis
I feel that's what's happening in ME when realistically the severity of the neuropsychiatric effects is a good yardstick as to how bad the encephalomyelitis is

 

[Glycon]

Not all depressive disorders and not all mental illnesses. Fukuda explicitly states that nonpsychotic or non melancholic depression plus anxiety disorders, somatoform disorders, and neurasthenia are not exclusionary.

I mean, of course! Come on, these people aren't idiots! It's not like the phenomenon of secondary depression (by whatever name) wasn't at the forefront of their minds.