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bile acids role in metabolism and intracellular thyroid regulation

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by Iritu1021, Mar 19, 2018.

  1. Iritu1021

    Iritu1021 Breaking Through The Fog

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    Here's an excerpt from this "white paper
    "https://www.clinicaleducation.org/wp-content/uploads/BileAcidsMakeYouLiveLonger.pdf

    It describes the role of bile acids on several receptors, including TGR5
    TGR5 has been defined as having four main roles:
    1 An immunomodulatory role
    2 Prevention of gallstones by acting as a potent antioxidant controller of nitric oxide production and protecting the liver against lipid peroxidation
    3. A manipulator of metabolism and mitochondrial energy homeostasis
    4 Cell proliferation and apoptosis

    Even more importantly, bile acids also appear to play a role in intracellular thyroid metabolism, by directly stimulating type 2 deiodinase and also indirectly by lowering VLDL and thus affecting transport of T1AM, thyroid hormone antagonist which is transported by apoB100, a VLDL particle. (I have a lot of info about T1AM on my blog www.chronicfatiguediagnosis.com)

    I'm curious if anyone has any experience to report with bile acids supplements?
     
  2. pattismith

    pattismith Senior Member

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    This is really amazing!

    Lot's of ME/CFS patients have Spina GD in the low range which indicates a deficit in type 1 or type 2 Deiodinases activity, so many of us could benefit from it;

    I will order some, and start it soon, thank you very much @Iritu1021
     
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  3. Iritu1021

    Iritu1021 Breaking Through The Fog

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    Reading further about bile acid metabolism, it seems like it might be good to take them with some taurine or glycine to ensure adequate conjugation.
    Let me know how it goes for you, @pattismith . My guess is that it will take at least a month to take an effect since it works on genomic level. My GD is already on the high side so I guess it's not really the right one for me but I might still give it a try.
     
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  4. aquariusgirl

    aquariusgirl Senior Member

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  5. Eastman

    Eastman Senior Member

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    High cholesterol in the elderly has been shown in studies to be correlated to lower mortality and it is maybe not a mere coincidence that cholesterol is needed to make bile acids.

    Serum total cholesterol levels and all-cause mortality in a home-dwelling elderly population: a six-year follow-up: Participants with low serum total cholesterol seem to have a lower survival rate than participants with an elevated cholesterol level, irrespective of concomitant diseases or health status.

    Lipids and All-Cause Mortality among Older Adults: A 12-Year Follow-Up Study: The results indicate higher mortality among older people with lower levels of total cholesterol. Furthermore, they show no association between all-cause mortality and hypercholesterolemia, high LDL-c, low HDL-c, hypertriglyceridemia, and high non-HDL-c in this group of older adults.

    Association of lipoprotein levels with mortality in subjects aged 50 + without previous diabetes or cardiovascular disease: A population-based register study: In conclusion, our population-based study shows that high TC, HDL-C, or LDL-C levels in the elderly are associated with a lower all-cause mortality compared with the group with the recommended low lipoprotein level.

    Lack of an association or an inverse association between low-density-lipoprotein cholesterol and mortality in the elderly: a systematic review: High LDL-C is inversely associated with mortality in most people over 60 years.

    Combining LDL-C and HDL-C to predict survival in late life: The InChianti study: Our findings suggest that, in community dwelling older individuals, the combined presence of optimal/near optimal LDL-C and low HDL-C represents a marker of increased future mortality.
     
  6. Eastman

    Eastman Senior Member

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  7. Iritu1021

    Iritu1021 Breaking Through The Fog

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    I have long suspected that the push for lower and lower cholesterol levels is a big conspiracy on the part of multi-billion dollar industry. And for people with CFS, who according to Naviaux study have a metabolic profile that's opposite to that of metabolic syndrome, I think high fat high cholesterol diet it is even more likely to be only beneficial.
     
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  8. Iritu1021

    Iritu1021 Breaking Through The Fog

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    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22162464
    CONCLUSIONS:
    Our data support a role of BA in human energy metabolism and in thyroid hormone control. Even though no convincing response to BA was demonstrated in TSHoma and TαT1 cells, the TSH decrease after a nutritional challenge suggests an interaction of BA on the set point of the thyroid axis.
     
  9. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    I have read that supplementing with pig pancreatin can reactivate viruses. I wonder how safe is bile acid supplementation. Any reports?
     
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  10. Iritu1021

    Iritu1021 Breaking Through The Fog

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    honestly, I'm not sure... Do you know what was proposed as the mechanism of that reactivation? also bile supplements come from ox, not pig.
     
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  11. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    I don't know. It was a warning from a pancreatin manufacturer.
     
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  12. pattismith

    pattismith Senior Member

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    I didn't see any change while I took bile acid, but today I start TUDCA.

    It was shown to raise D2 activity in brown adipose tissu, so it's worth give a try...
     
  13. debored13

    debored13 Senior Member

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    Vermont, school in Western MA
    i have tudca and am considering starting. Lmk how it goes
     
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  14. ljimbo423

    ljimbo423 Senior Member

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    Just want to let you know that bile acids can cause really bad bacterial die-off symptoms. From killing bacteria in the gut.

    I take a digestive enzyme with 150mg ox bile in it. I had to start with just 1/4 tab because the die-off symptoms were so strong. I think tudca is even stronger than ox bile.
     
  15. debored13

    debored13 Senior Member

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    Vermont, school in Western MA

    I have been hypothesizing that low cholesterol might be why I'm not responding well to thyroid treatment or sun at the moment. Havent' had a cholesterol blood test for awhile
     
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  16. FMMM1

    FMMM1 Senior Member

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    Hi I recall someone who was interested in liver function/bile etc. I'm guessing it was you @ljimbo423

    There's an article on this site you may be interested in
    Bile acid transporter SLCO3A1 and ME
    http://followmeindenmark.blogspot.com/2018/11/
     
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  17. ljimbo423

    ljimbo423 Senior Member

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    I don't think it was me you're thinking of. I did find the link you posted really interesting though.:)
     
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  18. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    Would it cause pain underneath the lowest front rib, left side?
     
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  19. ljimbo423

    ljimbo423 Senior Member

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    I honestly don't know, sorry. I get fatigue, aches, pains etc. from the die-off but no pain underneath the lowest front rib left side.
     
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