• Welcome to Phoenix Rising!

    Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of, and finding treatments for, complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia, long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.

    To become a member, simply click the Register button at the top right.

Never Ask Us if We're Hungry -- The Answer's Always No

Jody submitted a new blog post:

Never Ask Us if We're Hungry -- The Answer's Always No

If you're ever at Jody Smith's house, don't bother asking anybody if they are hungry ...



One of the most ridiculous questions you can ask in my house is "Are you hungry?"

There are three of us here and for many years, none of us ever got hungry. When our brains would turn to mush, when our faces would go numb, and we would start the invisible vibration which is the signature dance of ME/CFS, we knew we needed to eat.

Or rather, we knew we should have eaten something about twenty minutes ago and saved ourselves this distress.

For me, this realization hit after I started eating low carb. I was making a point of eating about every four hours -- something I had not been doing till I changed to the new eating style.

One of the unexpected perks was that the blood sugar problems I was apparently having by not eating often enough (because I never got hungry) dissipated enormously. From that point on, I did not bother to ask myself if I was hungry. I simply went by the clock.

If for some reason I couldn't grab some food in the allotted time, I still wouldn't be hungry. Stomach wasn't growling, no pangs at all.

But when I started having thoughts dissolve half-formed, when my lips started to tingle and vertigo would make me sway, when a sense of rushing electricity would surge up and down in my arms and my fingers would cease to obey me ... I knew it was time to drop everything before it literally dropped me.

I'd go for some protein, some fat ... Slice off a piece of leftover ham or roast beef, mix some tuna with mayonnaise, if all else failed, scoop some of the hamburger out of the cooked spaghetti sauce (for the carb eaters in the house) and nuke it, or have a couple of spoons of natural peanut butter.

Eat, rest, and wait 20 minutes. I'd begin to feel a little normal then. Or my ME/CFS "normal". You know what I mean.

My husband Alan has fibromyalgia and also doesn't get hungry. And he used to get quite irritated when I'd try to get him to eat. Never used to have breakfast or lunch. Part of the reason for that was a lack of money, but also it was his lack of appetite.

I started working on that. He'd eat but he wouldn't enjoy it. Not that the food wasn't good, prepared by such an excellent cook -- but he wasn't hungry. He never felt like eating.

Uphill battle, trying to get food into someone who I think in his heart of hearts really didn't believe he needed it. Certainly his stomach was not cooperating. When he would check to see if his stomach felt empty, or in need of some sustenance, its answer was always, "Of course not."

Eventually I won this particular ongoing skirmish. He got used to eating, and got to appreciate how much better he'd feel as the day wore on and he was no longer brain-dead or needing to fall down on his face and call it quits by 3 or 4 p.m. every day.

He gradually became convinced that eating food regularly was a good thing. Even for someone like him who never got hungry.

You'd think I would be on top of this thing for my son Jesse when he got ME/CFS seven years or so ago. But it took awhile for me to catch on. And I'm still liable to forget how inane this is and find myself asking him if he's hungry.

The answer is always no. But that doesn't mean he doesn't desperately need something to eat.

Jesse is not a low carb guy. I am suspicious that there is a gluten sensitivity at the very least in there for him but so far we're focusing on getting food into him that he can stand to swallow.

Some of that is still sandwiches and toast, but not as much as it used to be. We've been leaning heavy on potatoes for awhile, that seems to be working okay. And there are more sources of protein that he can tolerate, he even likes some of them now.

If I didn't put food in front of him he would rarely eat. Some of that is because it's just gnarly hard for him to do much because he is sick. And some of it is because ... he isn't hungry.

But I don't want him wasting away any more than he already has, and I'd like his brain to be able to work and his body to function. So hungry or not, boy, it's time to eat.

We remind me of diabetics, who are able to have some control over their blood sugar and their ability to function with the foods they eat and when they eat them. If we do what needs doing when it needs to be done it helps us to be a little more stable.

I actually get hungry sometimes these days. Catches me by surprise when it happens. Its sheer novelty outweighs the physical discomfort of hunger. I am so pleased to have reached the point of being able to have hunger pangs again, I can't begin to tell you.

I am looking forward to the day when my son gives me a different answer than the one I've gotten for over seven years. When I ask him "Are you hungry?" I will be thrilled to some day hear him say, "Yeah, I'm starving!"



Phoenix Rising is a registered 501 c.(3) non profit. We support ME/CFS and NEID patients through rigorous reporting, reliable information, effective advocacy and the provision of online services which empower patients and help them to cope with their isolation.

There are many ways you can help Phoenix Rising to continue its work. If you feel able to offer your time and talent, we could really use some more authors, proof-readers, fundraisers, technicians etc. We’d also love to expand our Board of Directors. So, if you think you can help in any way then please contact Mark through the Forums.

And don’t forget: you can always support our efforts at no cost to yourself as you shop online! To find out more, visit Phoenix Rising’s Donate page by clicking the button below.

Continue reading the Original Blog Post
 
I am not sure this is the opposite. I don't get hungry, I do get a kind of pain. That pain gets worse. Its not hunger, its something else.

I also find that sometimes I need to eat to stay focused, and other times if I eat I get fog. Sigh.

Alex,

If sometimes food helps you focus and other times it causes fog, is it possible that the foods preceding fog might be things you are intolerant of, and should be avoiding? Maybe they are part of what is creating some of your symptoms? That has been the case for me, so I am just wondering.
 
I take biotin as an appetite stimulator.

I will get unusually hungry when I am having a liver crisis as in a migraine. It starts with a slight headache, then i get really hungry and MUST eat, then the headache becomes unberable, vomiting ensues, and the migraine is over. :ill:
It is mostly triggered by high estrogen. I never happen to have milk thistle or NAC on hand when it happens.
 
Alex,

If sometimes food helps you focus and other times it causes fog, is it possible that the foods preceding fog might be things you are intolerant of, and should be avoiding? Maybe they are part of what is creating some of your symptoms? That has been the case for me, so I am just wondering.


I do have intolerances I am aware of, but there may be more. Its also about other complications as well. Currently I think this might be related to amine intolerance, but its far from certain. Its also possible its nothing to do with what food but what state my brain and other chemistry is in at the time.
 
I take biotin as an appetite stimulator.

I will get unusually hungry when I am having a liver crisis as in a migraine. It starts with a slight headache, then i get really hungry and MUST eat, then the headache becomes unberable, vomiting ensues, and the migraine is over. :ill:
It is mostly triggered by high estrogen. I never happen to have milk thistle or NAC on hand when it happens.

Ouch! That sounds really rough.
 
Would you say you experience any symptoms of Seasonal Affect Disorder (SAD) in the fall and winter months? I ask this because I would change dramatically when the seasons changed. I'd be sortof healthy in the summer -- what I'd call a dull normal. But by the end of August - early September - I'd have a noticeable drop in energy, stamina, balance, cognition, panting for air, etc.. I'd start needing naps again. Then by late November or so I would have a BIG drop and be back to mostly bedridden vegetation stage again.

Come spring, these would very slowly ease up, as I would spend more time outside and would get half an hour in the sun in my backyard most days.

8 yrs ago I tried taking big doses of vitamin D supplements ... and for the first time in many years did not have my winter crash.

Do you take vitamin D supplements at all?

Hey Jody, thanks for answering! I looked up SAD symptoms:
  • Irritability : season doesn't matter, level of fatigue does (if I get very tired during summer I'll be pretty grumpy, too)
  • Tiredness or low energy : yes, definitely worse during colder months
  • Problems getting along with other people : no
  • Hypersensitivity to rejection : always hypersensitive ;)
  • Heavy, "leaden" feeling in the arms or legs : possibly more during colder months
  • Oversleeping : I do sleep more during winter, but not excessively
  • Appetite changes, especially a craving for foods high in carbohydrates : YES! Huge appetite change, getting worse with time.
  • Weight gain : follows the appetite change
Two years ago I tried taking vitamin D during winter crash and it got MUCH worse. It took me 2 months to get back to previous level of energy. I later found out that I should be taking magnesium as well. Now I supplement with magnesium, but don't take any vit D, because I cannot afford crashing like that.
I would like to get a nutrient profile done this year and I think I will benefit the most if I do it in the winter months when I feel the worst. This should tell me if I'm vit D deficient.

Update on feeling nauseous during summer: this year a friend recommended a local OTC stomach remedy and my nausea is completely gone. Which is awesome :) Except now I still have all this winter weight to loose ;)
 
Last edited:
Wow, lots of great comments.

I was always hungry and if I didn't eat regularly it would feel as if my stomach was eating itself.

That was me, then I went off all food additives, gluten free and raw milk. Much better. Now with achalasia I can't get food in. I'm literally starving during episodes. :confused:

I don't have any difficulty eating. Some of the food actually tastes good to me (especially that which isn't good for me).
I didn't even realize that some of you don't think the food tastes good! I'm so sorry for you! I love food!! Eating is like listening to an orchestra, or concert, or jazz band (depending on the type of food). I miss it so much.

Intersting cytokine connection @Rachael! Thanks!