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Per Fink article: "Stig Gerdes helps to intensify conflicts" (on Katrina Hansen, GET, CBT, etc.)

Dolphin

Senior Member
Messages
17,567
This is by Per Fink, a Danish psychiatrist.

I think most people won't like it.

He talks about death threats in other countries e.g. UK.

He mentions how the approach is recognised e.g. with the NICE guidelines for CFS/ME in the UK.

He talks about patients being prejudiced against CBT, GET and the like.

He claims Katrina Hansen isn't being treated involuntarily - which is news to me.


http://www.dagensmedicin.dk/opinion/debat/stig-gerdes-er-med-til-at-optrappe-konflikter/

http://translate.google.com/transla...stig-gerdes-er-med-til-at-optrappe-konflikter

Debate

Updated 06/06/2014 Opinion: Debate

Stig Gerdes helps to intensify conflicts

When a doctor stands out with violent and unsubstantiated attacks on researchers and practitioners who want to help patients with functional disorders, you are helping to create anger and misunderstanding.

We must ask care and conscientiousness.

Practitioner Stig Gerdes (SG) writes Dagens Medicin he until a year ago did not know anything about functional disorders, but after he had 'scratched the surface' wants investigation of the area with the aim to find out whether functional disorders scientifically substantiated or 'Emperor's New Clothes'.

If SG had set themselves a little better into things and not just 'scratched the surface', he would have learned that there is solid evidence.

In addition to textbooks, we published in the American Journal of Physicians in 2010, a status article in Danish, where SG can find the documentation. Since 2010, there have been several new review articles published in high-ranking journals such as JAMA and Lancet.

Danish College of General Practitioners has issued a clinical guideline for functional disorders, which also evidence levels are listed, and there are also foreign clinical guidelines, for example.

National Institute of Health in England for CFS/ME. Around treatment concludes these clearly show that there is good scientific evidence that cognitive therapy, graded rehabilitation and sometimes antidepressants can help patients with functional disorders, regardless of what name they are dealt with, for example, fibromyalgia, irritable bowel syndrome, chronic fatigue syndrome/ME and bodily distress syndrome.

In recent years there has been a growing interest in functional disorders, and have led to several questions from various regulatory agencies. Research Clinic for Functional Disorders (FFL) has supplied evidence of a very large amount. This has never given rise to criticism from any authorities, and the many stories that abound especially on the Internet, has been found to be groundless.

It is noteworthy that the SG was invited for a parliamentary hearing on March 19 as an expert in functional disorders. SG seems to have only a sparse knowledge of the area and his main qualification seems to be some strong views, as expressed for example. with statements like 'functional disorders are a cancer that must be removed from the Danish healthcare system." There are several specialists in general medicine in Denmark, which has long scientific and clinical experience in the area, which would have been more appropriate.

SG claims that FFL has captive, forced detention and compulsory treatment a real young woman. This is a story that flourish especially in the social media, and in particular has enabled a group of American 'patient activists' who created an English-language Facebook group and want to free the woman.

As SG has been previously pointed out, the reference to and all processing on FFL voluntary, and no patients are involuntarily committed, forced detention and compulsory treatment.

People's Committee of Health has a § 71 committees that can take patient cases with the aim of ensuring that everything goes properly.

Committee secrecy and has access also to information that is subject to medical confidentiality. In the instant case, § 71 Committee visited and all relevant authorities involved and fully informed.

I find it problematic that SG publicly questioning that he should know that because of our confidentiality must not answer. I expect the SG as a doctor is aware that none of the involved authorities or professionals may comment on a patient without the patient's consent.

I find it unethical that SG helps to spread directly untrue stories about a specific patient, and the SG without the consent of the patient have established a group on Facebook where there is initiated a fund-raising will be used in an undefined trial for the patient against FFL.

I would like to appeal to the SG exhibits diligence. The patient will for years to come risk having to deal with these terrible and false stories where she hung out on the net, both with pictures and full name without having expressed a desire to become a publicly known person or consented to be referred to.

SG criticizes the fact that I know the parliamentary hearing was trying to show a patient case. I tried to play a public news reports, but because of technical problems failed. The feature was shown on TV2, which the patients had obviously been consented.

SG writes that patients with adverse events following HPV vaccination is likely to be diagnosed with a functional disorder. We do not do research in HPV vaccines, and we have not met patients who have had a functional disorder after HPV vaccination.

SG attaches me credit for the diagnosis of fibromyalgia is listed as a functional somatic syndrome. But it is not correct. The foreign researchers who should have the honor.

SG wonders that functional disorders encounter greater resistance than most other diseases. This is an international phenomenon that has been called 'patient activism' and is very strong example. U.S., UK and Norway. In these countries there are examples of doctors and researchers who have received death threats if they work with or speak favorably of treatments such. Cognitive Therapy and graduated rehabilitation.

The resistance stems from the stigma that patients with functional disorders unfortunately in some context are exposed. Patient activists are fighting against what they call 'psykiatrisering' and struggles that only research on 'biomedical' causal explanations for their illnesses.

In this fight, there is a lot of discrimination of mental illness, and the game is in some countries so aggressive that professionals and researchers get discouraged and choose not to deal with this disease group. Which goes beyond the large group of patients with functional disorders who want to appropriate treatment.

The resistance in Denmark is fortunately not quite as violent. But SG helps to escalate the conflict, anger and misunderstandings when he as a doctor publicly stand behind violent and unsubstantiated attacks on researchers and practitioners who want to help patients with functional disorders. Again, I would like to appeal to the SG exhibits diligence. For the only losers in this conflict are the patients.

We do not know the exact cause of functional disorders, and we look forward to the day when we learn more about them and can develop even better treatments. SG claims that American scientists are about to have found the cause of fibromyalgia, and it would be gratifying if that was the case, but I must be doubtful about this. As a research in the field, we follow the course of the literature review. Furthermore, there is currently a major study underway in the Board of Health on chronic widespread pain. I sit with the Working Group and we have not come across information that goes in the direction that SG specify.

SG is surprised that he has only met one patient who chose to stand up in the press. There are actually about 10-15 patients who over time have chosen to stand up and talk about their illness, but I would like to give SG right that to the ordinary newspaper reader, it will provide greater impact if more patients would come forward .

When there are no more, it has two main reasons. Firstly, there is a certain social stigma of patients with functional disorders. Many patients do not consider that example. friends, colleagues and employers are told that they have been ill with a functional disorder.

Second, some of the patients who have already made himself available to the press, seen to have very unpleasant mails and messages on Facebook from the Danish patient activists. Some of the patients have regretted their decision to come forward. In Norway, a patient with CFS/ME (chronic fatigue syndrome), which was recovered from psychological treatment, received death threats. It has none of the Danish patients received, but we are very aware of the risk. We hope that the SG and other professionals will put more emphasis on research than on individual patient stories in the press.

Finally, I would emphasize that we are working for a group of patients who have some very complex disease, and we want that patients with functional disorders get the same good treatment in our health care as everyone else. On a daily basis I experience some talented and dedicated employees and many grateful patients.

It's still a pleasure to work with and help patients with functional disorders, and when there are negative stories in the press or on the web, we find that both past and current patients to contact us with their support.

If SG or want more information about functional disorders, we have compiled both general information and our scientific articles on the website www.funktionellelidelser.dk.

In addition, you are always welcome to contact the department.


SOURCES

A. Schroeder, P. Fink, LO Fjorback, L. Frost Holm, E. Rehfeld, and M. Rosendal. Treatment strategy for functional syndromes, and somatization. Ugeskr.laeger 172 (24) :1839-42, 2010.

M. Rosendal, KS Christensen, L. Agersnap, P. Fink, and CV Nielsen. Clinical guidelines for general practice. Functional disorders, Danish College of General Practitioners, 2013.

P. Henningsen, S. Zipfel, and W. Herzog. Management of functional somatic syndromes. Lancet 369 (9565) :946-955, 2007.

DJ Clauw Fibromyalgia. A Clinical Review., MD April 16, 2014 Volume 311, Number 15

By Per Fink, PhD, MD. Professor, Senior Consultant Research Clinic for Functional Disorders Aarhus University Hospital
 

A.B.

Senior Member
Messages
3,780
National Institute of Health in England for CFS/ME. Around treatment concludes these clearly show that there is good scientific evidence that cognitive therapy, graded rehabilitation and sometimes antidepressants can help patients with functional disorders, regardless of what name they are dealt with, for example, fibromyalgia, irritable bowel syndrome, chronic fatigue syndrome/ME and bodily distress syndrome.

I'm guessing he thinks that these are all one problem, with different manifestations.
 

Firestormm

Senior Member
Messages
5,055
Location
Cornwall England
Functional Disorders
Patient stories

People with functional disorders often feel that they are alone with their illness. Many have never heard of functional disorders before falling ill themselves. It's easy to think that no-one else is feeling the same way you are.

Many of the patients that are treated at the Research Clinic for Functional Disorders and Psychosomatics say that it is a great relief to meet others that are going through the same thing.

Some of the people that we have treated have chosen to step forward to share their story. In their own words they talk about thoughts, symptoms, emotions and treatments.

Every story is personal and unique.

 

daisybell

Senior Member
Messages
1,613
Location
New Zealand
When you read those personal stories, they don't actually say that they have got better, just that they now feel that they are no alone and they have been given a name for what the problem is....
It's a tragedy if the health professionals simply see us as needing a bit of support and counselling and have no interest in pursuing the nature of the dis-ease. How blinkered can people be?

What a waste of resources and a disservice to patients.
 

alex3619

Senior Member
Messages
13,810
Location
Logan, Queensland, Australia
I have replied to this elsewhere. Hmmm, let me see if I can find some of that. This is from Facebook:

http://www.dagensmedicin.dk/.../stig-gerdes-er-med-til.../
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=da...

SG claims that FFL has captive, forced detention and compulsory
treatment a real young woman. This is a story that flourish especially
in the social media, and in particular has enabled a group of American
'patient activists' who created an English-language Facebook group and
want to free the woman.

As SG has been previously pointed out, the reference to and all
processing on FFL voluntary, and no patients are involuntarily
committed, forced detention and compulsory treatment.


Source: Co-Cure posting on 9/06/14

When have psychobabblers ever been proved right? Never. Yet they claim they are right. Some claim that critics do not understand the literature. They further claim that there are thousands of papers supporting their position, or that review papers in major journals, or textbook chapters, mean they are right.

If there are so many studies proving they are right, I have a question for them: NAME ONE!?

I think we need a NAME ONE campaign. If they are so right, name one study. If they are ever game to name one, then the fun begins ... I would be very interested to read one that is actually good science, and which is replicated independently, and has substantive objective evidence etc. In the meantime if they are game enough to name one, we can easily disprove their claim.
 

IreneF

Senior Member
Messages
1,552
Location
San Francisco
I thought the FB page was started by Karina's parents, or at least had considerable input from them.

I don't understand the death threats that keep rearing their ugly heads. If they are real, then the people making them should be prosecuted. I suspect they are the usual Internet hyperbole.
 

alex3619

Senior Member
Messages
13,810
Location
Logan, Queensland, Australia
I thought the FB page was started by Karina's parents, or at least had considerable input from them.

I don't understand the death threats that keep rearing their ugly heads. If they are real, then the people making them should be prosecuted. I suspect they are the usual Internet hyperbole.
Prime Minister David Cameron of the UK made comments to the effect that rioters "would pay". He was not misunderstood. If someone says that on the internet it can be used as spin to claim "death threats".

Personally I hope they all pay, as in the science advances and their psychobabble is discredited, patients initiate legal action and sue them, unethical conduct gets exposed and they lose their medical licenses, criminal activity comes to light and they are prosecuted .... each according to which misdeeds they are responsible for. Yet we cannot presume that everyone in the system is to blame (responsibility is a separate question) as the victims include doctors, bureaucrats and politicians who are fed hype, spin and falsehoods.
 

A.B.

Senior Member
Messages
3,780
When you read those personal stories, they don't actually say that they have got better, just that they now feel that they are no alone and they have been given a name for what the problem is....
It's a tragedy if the health professionals simply see us as needing a bit of support and counselling and have no interest in pursuing the nature of the dis-ease. How blinkered can people be?

What a waste of resources and a disservice to patients.

If these are the best success stories they can come up with, then they got nothing. Neither of these patients seem to have gotten better, they just seem happy to have their suffering acknowledged and accepted (ironically, that these patients felt rejected by doctors and family was most likely the result of biopsychosocial explanations in the first place).

In the long run this may end up being a disadvantage though because there's probably quite a bit that can be done treating the symptoms as biochemical problem.

PS: One might add that many patients who previously felt rejected and undiagnosed will feel relief in finally getting a diagnosis and treatment. Whether the diagnosis and treatment are correct and lead to objective improvement is another matter entirely.
 
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alex3619

Senior Member
Messages
13,810
Location
Logan, Queensland, Australia
If these are the best success stories they can come up with, then they got nothing. Neither of these patients seem to have gotten better, they just seem happy to have their suffering acknowledged and accepted (ironically, that these patients felt rejected by doctors and family was most likely the result of biopsychosocial explanations in the first place).

In the long run this may end up being a disadvantage though because there's probably quite a bit that can be done treating the symptoms as biochemical problem.

The question is, are they saying that its OK now, what they have is understood? Then leaving them with no chance of cure? Is this medicine by psychiatric placebo, without hope of real recovery?
 
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