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Anyone seen Dr Neil Nathan in California?

SanDiego#1

SanDiego#1
Messages
280
Location
SouthEast USA
SanDiego#1, thank you for your kind words. They have encouraged me more to write the book. I just hope I get enough energy to do it. I've always feared dying from this some day. I don't want to leave this earth without accomplishing something to help others. I'm not looking to become famous, but I want my suffering to have been for something. If I can wake up the masses or get the truth out about how we are be treated, then maybe it will have been worth it. Right now I'm watching Cry Freedom. It's about Steven Biko, a So. African activist who died for trying to make a difference in his country. It is one of most favorite movies of all time and beyond inspiring. If only we all could be Steve Bikos and bring truth and change to our plights.

Mouse- Don't know about your area Calif? but more and more Dr. here are not taking Medicare. My husband needed hip rep surgery by our Orthopedic specialist who we have seen for years. Thank God he took medicare. * others in the practice do not anymore.

SD
 

Mouse girl

Senior Member
Messages
578
I can't vouch for any of these docs but here is a list of ME CFS Fibro docs in California. Might give you somewhere to start so you can look into some of them, and see if any look likely or not.
http://www.co-cure.org/USA_CA.htm

Oh my gosh! Thank you so much for posting that link! It's been so hard to find lists of docs, seams harder to find quality info on the internet than it was before we had it. I've seen one of the docs on the list and he is fabby. But, he's not working as much so I'm glad to have a list of other docs to check out if he becomes unavailable. Oh, thanks so much. You really made me day, I printed out the list and was honestly surprised at how many docs are around. :thumbsup: I feel so much better knowing there are some other docs I can check out if I need to that I hadn't heard of before.
 

Mouse girl

Senior Member
Messages
578
Mouse- Don't know about your area Calif? but more and more Dr. here are not taking Medicare. My husband needed hip rep surgery by our Orthopedic specialist who we have seen for years. Thank God he took medicare. * others in the practice do not anymore.

SD
Yeah, I'm so cal. You know, that has not been my experience of the the experience of my friends and family. Medicare has been a life saver for everyone I know who has the standard plan. Some people choose the HMO kind of medicare and sure, they are going to have some restrictions since it is an HMO plan. But, most of my friends credit their health and lives improving enormously since receiving the blessing of medicare. I know for me, it was a life changer. I haven't heard of doc that doesn't take standard medicare except for docs that only take cash up front. I've found alot of docs that even take medi/medi who are Bev Hills fancy pants docs are free for me. It's pretty wonderful, I have to say. But these guys are really good guys. My oral surgeon who isn't covered since it is dentistry even took medicare/medical to do pathology though. That test would have cost $200 and would not have been covered at all under Blue Cross, it was free. I had an ultra sound that would not have been covered at all through my old Blue Cross plan, it would have cost me $1500, it was free. I would just have not been able to get the ultra sound in the past since I am impoverished due to this illness. Now, I can even afford to have biopsies or tests done that were impossible to afford before. I started paying taxes at age 9 so luckily I had paid into the system for a long time even though I got so sick at a young age.
 

Tristen

Senior Member
Messages
638
Location
Northern Ca. USA
Never mind. I just gotta reply from them stating the initial consult with him is $750 for 90 min.! I'm sorry, I don't care how good you are, these kinds of rates are shameful! People should not have to be rich in order to get quality treatment. I am so beyond frustrated right now!

Exactly why I haven't gone to Gordon Assoc even though they are only a few hours from me. Yes, they know their stuff, but way too much dough for me. I'd keep looking and find and me/cfs or llmd doc who will take your insurance.
 

globalpilot

Senior Member
Messages
626
Location
Ontario
I have a friend who saw Dr. Nathan for a year and spent several thousand dollars on office visits, testing, supplements sold by their practice and a $5000 Multiple Wave Oscillator he recommended. She failed to improve. At all. I agree that $750 is not much to pay to get well, but there is a very real possibility of spending a huge amount of money and not feeling any better at all.

Early on in my friend's treatment, I considered going to Dr. Nathan. After speaking with their office, it was apparent that this practice specialized in treating affluent patients with very deep pockets. I myself, would prefer to "self treat" until I could find a doc who truly cares for every patient. Even the uninsured, unemployed people who are desperate to get well.

How many of us haven't spent thousands of dollars otherwise though ? I know I have and I would rather pay a few thousand to get well now and stop the constant outpour.
The $5,000 for the wave oscilator is a bit over the top though.
 

globalpilot

Senior Member
Messages
626
Location
Ontario
Dr. Nathan wrote a book. I thought it was a pretty good book, until I got to the chapter on why he doesn't take Medicare. Apparently there are a certain number of patients who go from doctor to doctor (all the high priced famous ones) trying this and that, and they never get better. Then he blames the patient for not getting better. Not like the doctor doesn't understand the disease.

I was pretty offended and put off by this. I'm on Medicare and wouldn't have the money to see him or any other famous expensive doctor. I really have no idea what he's talking about, other than it's the old blame the patient for not wanting to get well.

So personally, even if I lived 10 minutes from him and could afford his rates, I doubt if I would go to see him. I suspect, Dr. Caledonia knows more about methylation than he does. All he did was do a trial of Rich's Simplified Methylation Protocol, and prior to that he was treating ME/CFS patients with Teitelbaum's Protocol.

I'm reading his book now. I haven't gotten to the section on medicare you referred to above. But the reason I'm so interested in him is because he is one of the few that treats biotoxins. I happen to have one of the genotypes that has difficulty detoxifiying biotoxins. I think this is very important.
 

globalpilot

Senior Member
Messages
626
Location
Ontario
Oh Grasshopper, I can see that you're early into this game called getting proper treatment for ME/CFS. Nothing is guaranteed. $750 is just the starting price, and it goes on from there. There are many naturopaths and holistic docs out there who can do the same thing for much cheaper.

Most people on this board are severely ill, unable to work, and have been for many years. They've already spent all they had on treatments that didn't work or made them worse, or at best, only a tiny bit better. As a consequence I would guess they they're all experts at managing their money, not spending on toys such as iPhones and extravagant phone and cable bills. If they don't have the money, they do without. It's a slow attrition into poverty. At this point, I actually look poor, with old stained clothes, shoes falling apart, glasses so old that I can't see shit, car from the 1990s (back when I used to work) and no possibility of replacing it. I think I'm pretty typical.

I'm sorry about your situation Caledonia and everyone else who is going through this. I have to disagree with one thing you said though and that is that a naturopath or holistic doc could do the same thing. I live in Ontario, Canada and have been seeing a very good doctor who does try his best I think. But there are certain things he is not up on that I see Dr Nathan is such as thorough viral testing and biotoxins.

I do plan to see Dr Nathan for the first time March 18th. I will keep the board informed so that everyone can learn what treatments he is doing and if they help.
 
Messages
35
globalpilot, curious as to why you are travelling all this way to see Dr. Nathan when there are a bunch of docs closer to you?

Anyhow, I would be very interested in hearing how your appt goes! Thanks!
 

valentinelynx

Senior Member
Messages
1,310
Location
Tucson
[quote="Mouse girl, post: 333033, member: 8523"... And he even wrote off the 20% that medicare doesn't cover so his visit and expensive tests were absolutely free! Even my doc who did research with the guy and got a friend discount on his bill still had to pay $500. But, little ole sick and impoverished me, free baby, free! ....[/quote]

Sadly, if this really what happened and not a misunderstanding on your part, that doctor would be considered by the feds to be committing Medicare fraud and could be prosecuted, have his practice closed down, and fined millions of dollars. Medicare does not allow you to waive the copays; they consider that stealing from the government. This is one reason that many good docs do not take Medicare; the rules are too onerous, they keep changing, and they can be changed retroactively, so you can be in violation without knowing it.
 

SanDiego#1

SanDiego#1
Messages
280
Location
SouthEast USA
Everyone here has complicated health issues. Crazy lists of symptoms. You know your body better than any doctor. You need to forget some of what you know and relearn methylation/mthfr. You and all the doctors would be amazed at what gets cured with a methylation protocol.

In addition $750 to get 17 years of illness cured seems pretty reasonable if you are that worried about going at it alone. When I had nowhere to turn before finding freddd, I was looking at sending my wife all over the country for $10,000+ and we were fresh out of college. I was looking at selling one of our cars, etc.... There is no amount of money that is worth having CFS over. I don't know your financial situation, but I would look at eliminating basic services like cable, Cell phone. Etc... If I thought a couple thousand to dr Neil would cure me.


Well I have to agree with Farallone- I have spent about $14000.00 since last June on a specialist in NC. I have gotten worse by the day. He is a big researcher and keeps giving me the same doses he gives a 175 lb man in injectables. I weigh 100 lb.His favorite quote if I ask a question or write an E-mail is "It is going to cost you". I get RX from his Compounding pharmacy that say take as prescribed. There are no directions. When I ask them --"It's going to cost you".
The last conversation I had with him he said he had been doing this a long time and had the sickest patients of any of the Dr. I told him-Maybe that is the reason they are the sickest-They are seeing you". I found an Environmental MD here that is changing alot of the things and also-since I have had Diarrhea for 4 months-cutting down or out my Magnesium.. I am not going into my medical issues. I just have everything!!!! This is for Red- You don't get 17 years of illness cured with one $750.00 visit. There will be many more and many more $$$$$$$$$$.
I used to live in Calif and went to college there-- I would think Dr. Nathan would have a lot of competition to charge those prices. We don't have as many ME/CFS physicians in the SE. Chiropractors here cannot prescribe drugs or vitamins. However, I can tell you this my Chiro helped my dizziness from Pots just from adjustments. Getting more books and seeing my less expensive Dr. here. Good luck .

San Diego #1
 

SanDiego#1

SanDiego#1
Messages
280
Location
SouthEast USA
[quote="Mouse girl, post: 333033, member: 8523"... And he even wrote off the 20% that medicare doesn't cover so his visit and expensive tests were absolutely free! Even my doc who did research with the guy and got a friend discount on his bill still had to pay $500. But, little ole sick and impoverished me, free baby, free! ....

Sadly, if this really what happened and not a misunderstanding on your part, that doctor would be considered by the feds to be committing Medicare fraud and could be prosecuted, have his practice closed down, and fined millions of dollars. Medicare does not allow you to waive the copays; they consider that stealing from the government. This is one reason that many good docs do not take Medicare; the rules are too onerous, they keep changing, and they can be changed retroactively, so you can be in violation without knowing it.[/quote]


Val- Who are you the Medicare Police??? If the Dr. wants to do this-he is an adult and so is the patient. Why are you waving a Red Flag??

San Diego #1
 

globalpilot

Senior Member
Messages
626
Location
Ontario
globalpilot, curious as to why you are travelling all this way to see Dr. Nathan when there are a bunch of docs closer to you?

Anyhow, I would be very interested in hearing how your appt goes! Thanks!

None of the bunch of docs closer to me treat biotoxins. Do you know of any ? I've been working with one of the best in my area for several years and we've done everything he has available.
 

sianrecovery

Senior Member
Messages
828
Location
Manchester UK
Hi Fallaron

That's disappointing, I liked his book too. But like Caledonia, I also found the chapter on why he chose not to work with certain patients had that tang of self-justifying bullshit. Some doctors are better than others, but if there's one out there that has all the answers, I have yet to hear of them.
I just wanted to say I think you are doing a brave and difficult thing in caring for your mother. I looked after both parents when they had terminal cancer, and the final stint with my dad was kind of what brought everything to a grinding halt. It's very hard to be a carer when you are ill yourself. My brother has just been diagnosed with bilateral breast cancer, with lymph node involvement, and I am trying to grid my loins to do it again, while my body is going, as we say in the UK, 'you're having a frigging laugh aren't you?!'
But when you're in it, you're in it, and I have never regretted anything I spent in the way of health to make sure my father had the best care, and died at home as he chose. Its four years since he died. I had many years of ill health prior to his death, but nothing like the depth of it I have experienced since. Happily, over the last year, while definitely NOT CURED I am better than I was via a variety of interventions. I wish you and your family all the love and luck and acceptance and ease and grace in the world, and hope your mother's pain is soon relieved.
 

RestingInHim

Realist
Messages
159
Location
Riverside, CA, USA
Never mind. I just gotta reply from them stating the initial consult with him is $750 for 90 min.! I'm sorry, I don't care how good you are, these kinds of rates are shameful! People should not have to be rich in order to get quality treatment. I am so beyond frustrated right now!

I haven't read this entire thread, but I can recommend Dr. John Chia in Torrance (LA suburb). He is on my insurance and his office handles all the billing. Though he is an infectious disease (and an ME/CFS) specialist, he only charged my insurance what my internist charges...and Dr. Chia has spent 1- 1 1/2 hours with me at appointments! I have multiple health issues....many of which he believes are due to the enteroviruses for which I tested positive.

Here is blog of one of his patients: http://quixoticmeblog.blogspot.com/
Here's my first article on Health Rising...2nd one will be posted this week: http://www.cortjohnson.org/blog/2013/02/23/me-and-dr-chia-chronic-fatigue-syndrome/

He is interviewed on YouTube ME/CFS Alert channel, Episodes 38-41
Check out threads on PR...one regarding Dr. Chia, the other is about Equilibrant. Also search PR and HR about him

Hope this helps!
 

Dreambirdie

work in progress
Messages
5,569
Location
N. California
Chia sounds like a very kind and generous doctor. I know 2 other people (in my FB group), who see Chia and they give him VERY HIGH MARKS.

He is very compassionate, and absolutely NOT a money grubber, like some of the other self-proclaimed CFS experts.
 

RestingInHim

Realist
Messages
159
Location
Riverside, CA, USA
Absolutely, Dreambirdie! He avoids expensive treatments that have been shown to do little for his patients. He and his son do their research with little or no funding. He doesn't order tests that won't effect treatment. At the highest dose, his Equilibrant is $90 per month. For the person who asked about traditional Chinese treatments, he imports ingredients for Equilibrant(an immune modulator and antiviral) from China, from sources he knows and trusts.

I have received the most help from him than from any other doctor in 20 years of dealing with this disease!
 

Dreambirdie

work in progress
Messages
5,569
Location
N. California
Great to hear! CHia sounds like one of the few rare "good ones."


Absolutely, Dreambirdie! He avoids expensive treatments that have been shown to do little for his patients. He and his son do their research with little or no funding. He doesn't order tests that won't effect treatment. At the highest dose, his Equilibrant is $90 per month. For the person who asked about traditional Chinese treatments, he imports ingredients for Equilibrant(an immune modulator and antiviral) from China, from sources he knows and trusts.

I have received the most help from him than from any other doctor in 20 years of dealing with this disease!
 

valentinelynx

Senior Member
Messages
1,310
Location
Tucson
Sadly, if this really what happened and not a misunderstanding on your part, that doctor would be considered by the feds to be committing Medicare fraud and could be prosecuted, have his practice closed down, and fined millions of dollars. Medicare does not allow you to waive the copays; they consider that stealing from the government. This is one reason that many good docs do not take Medicare; the rules are too onerous, they keep changing, and they can be changed retroactively, so you can be in violation without knowing it.


Val- Who are you the Medicare Police??? If the Dr. wants to do this-he is an adult and so is the patient. Why are you waving a Red Flag??

San Diego #1[/quote]

Just sad that it is that way. A good friend had his practice destroyed by trying to be a nice doctor. I'm not the one who posted that this doctor is doing whatever he is doing. More power to the doctor, sounds like a good guy.
 
Messages
1
I've been seeing Dr Nathan for awhile, and yes he is expensive. At first we were dealing with just fibromyalgia and hormone , digestion issues. Slow process, but I've had fibro and been ill for over 30 yrs. after about 1 yr, he starting working with the MOLD issue, making the connection with fibro and Mold toxicity.

He ordered the lab tests for me, and we found that I had 10x's the expected amounts of mold one would find in the population. Wow! Mold toxicity zcauses all of the same symptoms as fibro. Had I not found this out, I would still be going from doc to doc, some covered by insurance, others not. Now I am detoxing...it is slow, but I have hope.

I have spent ma y thousands of dollars over the years looking for answers, and never found them until Dr. Nathan. He's not perfect, but he is amazing in his dedication and constant research for answers for patients that "fall through the cracks" and never find healing through conventional means. And, by the way, he is moving his practice to be closer to his home and his initial fee has dropped to $500. Remember, that is for a 1 to 1 and a half hour visit! Follow ups for 15 or 30 minutes are much less.
 
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Mouse girl

Senior Member
Messages
578
hmmm.....just reading some of the old posts here regarding payment and medicare fraud. Well......I am certainly not a billing expert and believe me, you must be a billing expert to understand the extremely complicated process of medical billing, but I wonder if there is some misinformation out there. The docs I was talking about are super respected docs who teach and chair at UCLA, have worked for the CDC, WHO, are published (in real medical journals not on the intenent, hehe) amongst others. I highly doubt that a UCLA chair who is revered in his field is committing medicare fraud or any of my other docs. Some of the more douchy, expensive suppliment selling docs I've seen, yes, I could easily see them commiting fraud and I do know of one who did commit fraudulent billing. I think there is enormous fear and misinformation these days. I think that some docs who are not respectable and/or that intelligent may lie about what goes on payment wise in order to make the most money possible or because they feel some pressure to be fabulously wealthy like docs were in the 80's. Other docs are fine with being just on the wealthier side of things.

As for all these docs who claim to have the secret and end up charging a fortune to patients with detoxes or other things.....well, all I can say is.....after 22 years of being active in the patient community, I have yet to see one patient recover or see a heck of alot of improvement from these guys. CFS and fibro are cash cows. Seams we've all been duped in our utter desperation to get well.