The effects of stress

[triffid113]

I fully expect this thread to go on to discuss the effects of stress in CFS/ME, but I am introducing it more generally because of an incident I have to get off my chest.

My father had a heart attack when he went in for a pacemaker check (so was luckily at the hospital cardiac unit and was resussitated by them). Now, however, he is having trouble EVER GETTING OUT OF THAT PLACE. And they do not care if he does not get any food or water ALL DAY. He is 85 years old! They say he failed a swallow test twice (he pulled out feeding tubes 4 times) ad so they will not put in another tube until a doctor evaluates him (in his OWN SWEET TIME) for a tube placement for feeding. We assumed (I mean he is 85 - who would ever mistreat a frail elderly person to the extent of not feeding them ALL DAY?) that they would do this today, but they had NO INTENTION of doing it today and even said "he could go 14 days w/o food and be fine."

To which I said, "No way, we will transfer him to another hospital if that's your plan." I told them stress like that can kill an 85 year old man, who has been calling "please help me. Water, I need water, Get me out of here" for two solid days (which they ignore). I am trying to find even a few studies that say that stress can cause cardiac complications and I am having trouble doing so. If I so much as mention the word 'elderly' in the search string, I get TONS of webpages about witholding food as a form of euthenasia. Talk about elder discrimination!

So I open the floor to any studies or information of any kind about the impact of stress on our lives and lifespans. Thanks everyone.

P.S. This is the parent with CFS symptoms. And I wonder if it is common to have heart problems in CFS because the heart is one of the biggest users of energy...?

 

[robertpcx]

triffid113 hi,
Can you afford a consultation with a MD ND 1 hr phone consult is $200 it may be a waste of time but may be worth considering.

http://www.drcarolyndean.com/content/?section=consults&page=details

How was he doing before entering the hospital?
I am not a doctor, it seems to me that something has to happen fast. This seems to me to be a situation most definately full of stress and stress nearly killed me. If you can manage it I would find a simpathetic Doctor that can make things happen fast. You might want to contact your attorney and get him involved or at least find out what he can do to help facilitate the proper care.

I found this on stress: http://www.thedoctorwillseeyounow.com/content/stress/art3068.html

Also you should take a look at this page: http://drcarolyndean.com/ She has a piece on stress and the heart on her web page right now.

and this: http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-hospital-psychosis.htm#slideshow

I hope you can find something useful here.

Good Luck.

 

[Little Bluestem]

Can you get someone to stay with him while he is in the hospital? Services that provide in-home aids will also provide someone in-hospital. They could stop him from pulling out his feeding tube, get him something to drink, etc. They might also be able to feed him so that he would not need the feeding tube, depending on how badly he failed the swallow test. Does the hospital provide a pureed diet? If not, he may need to be in a different hospital.

 

[snowathlete]

As you're in the US, what i would do would be different from what i would do over here, but I would think about threatening to get a lawyer and sue them for neglectful care, regardless of whether something bad subsequently happens or not. It wont win you friends, and you probably wont need to follow through, but this might stimulate them into ensuring he is appropriately cared for and that such good care goes on record.

I havent read much about it but i have heard many ME doctors talk about the heart often having problems in CFS/ME. I know several of them check for such problems when looking at ME patients.

Regarding the stress element - im certain that my ability to cope with stress has become reduced significantly as my ME has got worse. I dont have the energy but its more than that i think. I feel like there is something chemical going on, like not enough adrenalin and other stuff - whatever that might be - to enable me to deal with such situations.

 

[triffid113]

Thanks for your help everyone. My sisters and I have to e in agreement before we move him and one of my sisters still wants to give the current hospital time to 'reassess' before we mve him, thinking a move will cause a delay. I think the current hosp. will string us along, meanwhile not providing adequate care, while my Dad just gets worse from stress, but it looks like it will be another day or 2 before we are all in agreement.

 

[robertpcx]

This is a small excerpt from Dr. Carolyn Dean's book "The magnesium Miracle" :

"Most people with Cronic Fatigue Syndrome and Fibromyalgia improve about 50% when they begin to use magnesium. People who take magnesium for muscle spasms have shared that their mild depression and irritability disappear as a wonderful side benefit, One benefit of magnesium, which is difficult to prove scientifically, is a greater enjoyment of sexual activity, reported by many women. I've written about magnesium oil in this edition of "The magnesium Miracle, but already my clients are remarking on its many benefits. You can rub it into the gums to help treat inflamation and prevent bad breath and gum bleeding. Applied as a spray, it makes the skin smooth and soft."

Magnesium and Heart Disease.

Three things you need to know about Magnesium and heart disease

1. Magnesium prevents muscle spasms of the heart blood vessels, which can lead to heart attack.

2. Magnesium prevents muscle spasms of the peripheral blood vessels, which can lead to high blood pressure.

3. Magnesium prevents calcium buildup in cholesterol plaque in arteries, which leads to clogged arteries.

 

[triffid113]

Thanks Robertpcx. Here is what happened. My father was moved from ICU to another floor (just when I would have yanked him out of the hospital). The doctor on the new floor was great. When we told him my father was losing weight at a rate of over a pound a day in this hospital and that the ICU people did not care even though he was already 30 pounds underweight and crying constantly for help, he said he would arrange a stomach tube be put in. He called one team down and they refused because my Dad is on Plavix. The doctor then said he would simply call another part of the hospital down that is "less conservative" and see if they will do it. They did. They simply told the floor doc to perscribe Vitamin K the day before. So my Dad got some food into him. Then when he developed neuropathy (always happens in institutions) he gave him a B12 shot. He told me if there was an mfolate shot he would give it but there is no such thing. The idiot assistant who refused my Dad a defibrillator was instructed by the doctor she works for to make the test they apply to decide who can get a defib easier because we were adamant, so she basically coached him to say what she wanted to hear (it was a non test). And we got the defibrillator. He was to be released today but he developed diarrhea and now they had to send a sample to the lab to see if he caught a hospital infection. Poor guy. And so he is stiiiiillllllll there. And we had to sign up for a min of 6 weeks on the tube diet so he won't be back to normal for some time yet. They found in the hospital that 4 nepros a day does not supply enough potassium or phosporus for him so they are sending us home with 2 cans of nepro and 3 cans of glucerna / day (and we are worried that the potassium etc still won't be right because we think the dialysis center only checks 1x/month - that's when they send us copies of the labs 1/month). For some reason they find it "hard to switch" from one type of supplement to another at the hospital to see how that will work. Poor guy, poor guy.

 

[robertpcx]

Thanks Robertpcx. Here is what happened. My father was moved from ICU to another floor (just when I would have yanked him out of the hospital). The doctor on the new floor was great. When we told him my father was losing weight at a rate of over a pound a day in this hospital and that the ICU people did not care even though he was already 30 pounds underweight and crying constantly for help, he said he would arrange a stomach tube be put in. He called one team down and they refused because my Dad is on Plavix. The doctor then said he would simply call another part of the hospital down that is "less conservative" and see if they will do it. They did. They simply told the floor doc to perscribe Vitamin K the day before. So my Dad got some food into him. Then when he developed neuropathy (always happens in institutions) he gave him a B12 shot. He told me if there was an mfolate shot he would give it but there is no such thing. The idiot assistant who refused my Dad a defibrillator was instructed by the doctor she works for to make the test they apply to decide who can get a defib easier because we were adamant, so she basically coached him to say what she wanted to hear (it was a non test). And we got the defibrillator. He was to be released today but he developed diarrhea and now they had to send a sample to the lab to see if he caught a hospital infection. Poor guy. And so he is stiiiiillllllll there. And we had to sign up for a min of 6 weeks on the tube diet so he won't be back to normal for some time yet. They found in the hospital that 4 nepros a day does not supply enough potassium or phosporus for him so they are sending us home with 2 cans of nepro and 3 cans of glucerna / day (and we are worried that the potassium etc still won't be right because we think the dialysis center only checks 1x/month - that's when they send us copies of the labs 1/month). For some reason they find it "hard to switch" from one type of supplement to another at the hospital to see how that will work. Poor guy, poor guy.

My heart goes out to you I wish your family good luck in these trying times.

 

[triffid113]

My father passed away tonight. He had 2 heart attacks and we did not resussitate when he stopped breathing (3rd?). The doctors cracked his ribs trying to resussitate him the second time and explained it would be cruel to resuss him should it happen again. I hope none of you ever have to go through that. My father will be sorely missed. He was always there for us, I can't tell you how many times he bailed me out when I had a flat or locked myself out of my car. He was an easy-going man all his life until he got old and a bit crabby, but still always supportive. I always remember his values. On the day I turned 13 he took me to the movies and paid full price instead of telling tem I was only 12 and I was amazed. I told him I was only 1 day older ad did not suddenly "look" 13. But he said nothing is free - that someone pays for everything, in this case a businessman trying to make a living for his family. I then asked him if he would stop at a red light if it was out in the country and he could see that there wasn't a car for miles. He said that he would - that's the law. He was also the only person who understood when I learned how to drive and was afraid the car would skid off the road at the curves...he told me the roads were banked so that wouldn't happen. He told me the most important thing about driving is to always be predictable so other drivers don't get any sudden surprises. He made sure my sisters and I went to college because he said his own sisters had not and their husbands had died or been unable to hold down a job (alcoholic). He lived through the depression so he said you can't count on a husband to support you or money in the bank, but that you could only count on your skills. He loved his cats...one of whom was a stray panhandling and my dad fed him until winter then invited him in and made a pet out of him. He loved my mother and missde my mother tremendously when she passed. He was living at my sister's house for some months until his heart attack in january and he enjoyed hanging out in the kitchen 'so he would know what's going on'. He loved watching the deer out the window. He taght me some German today. He asked for "cafe bitte" and I asked him what bitte means and he said "if you please" so I responded with the french 'sil vous plait' and he said 'we'. I gave him coffee today but it had to be thickened because he was only able to eat honey-thick food. He wanted to wear his navy hat but I told him it was in the cupboard and it would keep there until he was better so then he wouldn't get germs on it. It was his lucky hat. It told what ships he served on in WWII - the Welles and the Clinton - and twice when he wore it out to a restaurant someone said "thank you for your service to our country" and paid his bill. So his hat was very very special to him. They put him on morphine. I don't know if he heard us - he never came to after his heartattacks - but my brother-in-law sanf "Be Not Afraid" for him (Dan Schutte). And...it seems so incredible that he's gone. How can someone living suddenly not be? It always seems impossible when a strong-willed person passes. It seems like it could not have been their time. You know?

 

[robertpcx]

May your father rest in peace.

 

[antares4141]

I fully expect this thread to go on to discuss the effects of stress in CFS/ME, but I am introducing it more generally because of an i

P.S. This is the parent with CFS symptoms. And I wonder if it is common to have heart problems in CFS because the heart is one of the biggest users of energy...?

I've had CFS for 16 years, many times I've had sharp chest pain. My dad a MD specializing in internal medicine and things to do with the heart told me the pain didn't have anything to do with heart disease. Because I've had all kinds of other alarming types of pains with other organ systems I ignored the chest pain. About two years ago I realized I'm sensitized to gluten and all kinds of other foods. Started becoming more aware what I eat and noticed that every time I eat sharp types of foods like corn chips, I would get the chest pain. I realized from that point that was actually my esophagus that was given me the pain and it's probably to do with my food sensitivities and the entire digestive track and some type of systemic type of inflammation. I also used to get the pain from sitting in a certain way (long time in front of computer) with my backup against the chair. These times the pain was so deep that it started to affect my vagus nerve and forced me to lay down. When I did the pain would go away within two hours.

 

[antares4141]

triffid113,
I'm sorry about your dad. My last post must have seemed kind of cold. I have a habit of posting on threads without reading through to the bottom.

My dad is 82 I have a hard time thinking about how I am going to make it without him, I'm hoping he has 10 more good years at least but have to be realistic the odds are stacked against that.

My condolences

Robert

 

[antares4141]

Wish there was a way I could thank all those who fought/fight for our freedom:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Welles_(DD-257)

 

[Ema]

I'm really sorry for your loss. Your father sounds like he was one of the good ones and will surely be missed. Thanks for sharing your memories with us.

I'm also sorry that you had to fight with the hospital to try to get them to display an iota of common sense. I'm glad the last doctor seemed to be willing to try.

Ema

 

[Little Bluestem]

I am so sorry to hear of your dad's passing. My dad's health is failing and I can't really imagine what it will be like when he is not here. He also has to have honey thick liquids. We have had our share of problems with doctors and hospitals. It seems to go with the territory.

 

[Sea]

I'm sorry for your loss Triffid. I have experienced some of those hospital battles too so I know how physically and emotionally exhausting they are. Take care of yourself

 

[triffid113]

Thank you, everyone. I found the funeral preparations comforting. My sisters and I wrote up the story of his life and the funeral home took 30 pictures of him and matched it with the story and Big Band music and Doris Day's 'Sentimental Journey' and made a commemorative DVD. It helped us to replace the bad memories at the very end with all the good oes of his life. My father said when he joined the Navy his mother threw a party for him and invited all the girls he knew and Doris Day's 'Sentimental Journey' was playing on the radio that day, it was top of the charts then. I am soooo glad to have that to chase away the memories of the last day.

Did I mention that my father's genetic analysis came 2 days after he passed away? He had 13 genetic defects (I have 18). The one that got him was the MTHFR 1298AC which he was homozygous for. A month before he died I got test results on him which showed he had no detectable level of biopterin. I was unable to find a kidney doctor at his hospital (I asked 8) who knew what biopterin was or the biochemistry of the urea cycle (or who had any interest, despite it being THEIR SPECIALTY). I had not yet been able to pursue finding a neurologist who knew what that was. If my father had had more time I was slowly pursuing investigating whether he could take BH4 as a dialysis patient (there is a researcher at U of M (Michigan) studying whether BH4 will slow the progression of kidney disease). I only had got to the point of trying the most benign supplements on him...ones his kidney doctor knew to be safe (B vitamins, carnitine, and CoQ10). But I think BH4, magnesium, and DHEA would have been the heavy hitters...it takes time to amass knowledge to work up to trying that on someone fragile. And there was no time. I ran so many tests on him he said he felt like a guinea pig, but I had just not built up to any supplement that actually got around his real problem. I held my breath when I looked at his genetic profile afraid it would be the same as mine and I would be looking at my future. But it's hard to say. I am relieved to see that I am only heterozygous for MTHFR1298AC but he was only hetero for the CBS defects and I am homo (Yasko says CBS uses up BH4 faster), so it's hard to say how that will pan out at the end. My mother was exceptionally healthy so I am forced to conclude that while I got many genetic defects from my Dad, a fair share of them must have arisen because my mother was 40 when she had me. I was the first. My sisters also have my mother's exceptional health. Go figure. My Dad knew he had a good thing when he married Ms. Energizer Bunny!