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Telegraph Tomorrow - Exercise and positivity can overcome ME

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duncan

Senior Member
Messages
2,240
Although 'positive thinking' is not the same as CBT, the second heading here (Chronic Fatigue Syndrome Sufferers 'can overcome etc...) is not far removed from what the study claims. The headline does not say "will" overcome. It also does not claim that ALL symptoms will improve.

So yes, it is misleading, but technically, well....

Perhaps it might have been better to specifically chastise them for not clearly stating that the contested study's findings only apply to a minority of cases.

I would hate for them to wiggle out of any part of this on a technicality.
 
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charles shepherd

Senior Member
Messages
2,239
duncan said:
Although 'positive thinking' is not the same as CBT, the second heading here (Chronic Fatigue Syndrome Sufferers 'can overcome etc...) is not far removed from what the study claims. The headline does not say "will" overcome. It also does not claim that ALL symptoms will improve.

So yes, it is misleading, but technically, well....

Perhaps it might have been better to specifically chastise them for not clearly stating that the contested study's findings only apply to a minority of cases.

I would hate for them to wiggle out of any part of this on a technicality.
Click to expand...


I take your points but the thrust of the MEA complaint relates to the heading below

This is a clear factual inaccuracy

The UK press council code of conduct makes it clear that factual inaccuracies have to be corrected

I don't think they have any wriggle room here…..


Oxford University has found ME is not actually a chronic illness
 
nasim marie jafry

nasim marie jafry

Senior Member
Messages
129
Sorry, not up to date with this thread, was tweeting PACE yesterday, I really need to rest my arms, but I am quite astonished - not really - to see neurologist Suzanne O'Sullivan in today's Guardian pointing out how damaging misrepresentation is re. the dreadful Knapton's Telegraph exercise headlines. But I am not feeling the love! This from the woman who happily wrote ME is perpetuated by false illness beliefs in her All in Your Head book this summer. The gall of the woman, jumping on the PACE controversy bandwagon: I left a comment on Guardian CIF thread:

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...s-exercise-counselling-cures#comment-62349370
 
SOC

SOC

Senior Member
Messages
7,849
Snow Leopard said:
Looks like several forum members, minus the dumbells. ;)
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Those dumbells are the BPS school psychologists. See, it's a metaphorical picture of us grateful patients shaking the hands of those wise people who showed us that all we had to do was get up out of our beds and exercise a bit....

Or maybe they're just dumbells....
 
TiredSam

TiredSam

The wise nematode hibernates
Messages
2,677
Location
Germany
This is from the transcript of her interview on Australian radio on 18th October, less than 2 weeks ago:

Suzanne O'Sullivan: Yes. So there has been a number of large studies looking at the prevalence of these sort of conditions in countries as varied as Nigeria compared with the States compared with Chile compared with Brazil. And the frequency with which people have psychosomatic symptoms is equally common, whichever financial environment that the health service exists in. So it's very common. The only thing that changes is that symptoms can be culturally determined. So, for example, illnesses like chronic fatigue syndrome and ME are common in the States and in the UK, less common in countries like France. So there is a cultural influence to the sort of symptoms that people get.
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She's currently outside the tent, inside the tent, and generally pissing all over the tent from all directions and now onto her journalistic colleagues too. She's trying to define her territory everywhere, barking all the way.
 
TiredSam

TiredSam

The wise nematode hibernates
Messages
2,677
Location
Germany
Cheshire said:
The fact that doctors are not diagnosing patients does not mean there are less cases.
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Good point. There are countries where many patients have to hide from their health system, because a diagnosis would mean they are forced to undergo inappropriate treatments which worsen their condition before they even have a chance of their benefits application getting through at the third appeal, or where a diagnosis puts them in danger of being locked away.
 
alex3619

alex3619

Senior Member
Messages
13,810
Location
Logan, Queensland, Australia
Cheshire said:
The fact that doctors are not diagnosing patients does not mean there are less cases.
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What are the chances that someone would get accurately diagnosed with ME in Nigeria? Pretty slim. There are indeed cultural differences ... in diagnosis, diagnostic technology and in medical training. Not all doctors operate the same way, country to country.

Even should this be correct, and ME is rare in the third world for example, it would still be a leap of reason, and not logically defensible except as an hypothesis, to claim that its due to cultural differences. How about nutrition, disease burden, variety of disease, environmental toxins, and so on? Lots of possibilities, all hypothetical, all possibly right.

I personally think its everywhere but there is cultural suppression of patient diagnosis, through one failure or bias or another. That is my current working hypothesis.
 
Wildcat

Wildcat

Messages
1,446
.

This is pure Wessely-Showalter speak:

Suzanne O'Sullivan: "...The only thing that changes is that symptoms can be culturally determined. So, for example, illnesses like chronic fatigue syndrome and ME are common in the States and in the UK, less common in countries like France. So there is a cultural influence to the sort of symptoms that people get..."

,
 
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user9876

Senior Member
Messages
4,556
alex3619 said:
What are the chances that someone would get accurately diagnosed with ME in Nigeria? Pretty slim. There are indeed cultural differences ... in diagnosis, diagnostic technology and in medical training. Not all doctors operate the same way, country to country.

Even should this be correct, and ME is rare in the third world for example, it would still be a leap of reason, and not logically defensible except as an hypothesis, to claim that its due to cultural differences. How about nutrition, disease burden, variety of disease, environmental toxins, and so on? Lots of possibilities, all hypothetical, all possibly right.

I personally think its everywhere but there is cultural suppression of patient diagnosis, through one failure or bias or another. That is my current working hypothesis.
Click to expand...

Interestingly MS is rarer in the 3rd world. I believe it tends to be more prevalent in the northern and I've seen research suggesting the blood brain barrier is weaker with lack of Vit D.
 
alex3619

alex3619

Senior Member
Messages
13,810
Location
Logan, Queensland, Australia
user9876 said:
Interestingly MS is rarer in the 3rd world. I believe it tends to be more prevalent in the northern and I've seen research suggesting the blood brain barrier is weaker with lack of Vit D.
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MS risk increases the further you are from the equator, according to what I was taught a decade and a half ago. The vitamin D hypothesis was cited even then. Now it might be important because of vitamin D, as I suspect a failure of the blood brain barrier during acute infection might be a major risk factor for ME.

Yet severity of infection seems to be very important, and there are a heck of a lot of people suffering from major infections in third world countries. This might easily offset any risk from vitamin D deficiency. It might more than offset that risk, and make ME more common there, just less diagnosed.
 
Countrygirl

Countrygirl

Senior Member
Messages
5,502
Location
UK
less common in countries like France
Click to expand...
The fact that doctors are not diagnosing patients does not mean there are less cases.
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This is a little off topic.......okay a lot off topic, but Cheshire's post reminded me of a surprise visitor I had at my door a while ago.

The doorbell rang, I opened the door and standing on my doorstep was a nun in full garb. I had no idea who she was. She said that she had come over from France as she was sick with ME as were a number of her fellow nuns in convents around France and they needed help. She said she had heard of me.................in France????.............. and asked if I could help.I asked her in. She stayed for three hours gleaning all the knowledge she could about the disease. She said that there was no doctor who would diagnose them and they were forced to work long hours and rise early with no consideration. She then said that many Catholic monks were sick around France as well and would I send regular information to various convents and monasteries for them. (At the time I produced a monthly newsletter to keep the patients in the county aware of recent research, although it did circulate to a number of countries over the years from Saudi to Australia.) Finally it was agreed that I would send a regular booklet to her convent, and she would copy it and forward it to the other convents and monasteries. Sooo............ ME is certainly common in France...........it is just that it isn't recognised.
 
Effi

Effi

Senior Member
Messages
1,496
Location
Europe
@Countrygirl I am intrigued by this story. I'm sure she was the last person you'd expect to knock on your door! Is there a monastic subgroup that we don't know of yet? (Ok that was a silly joke, but all joking aside, it's heartbreaking that they're also left without any help, especially in a religious environment that preaches love and charity...)

@Cheshire I thought in France me/cfs was sometimes diagnosed as 'spasmophilie'. Maybe this could mask the true patient numbers somehow.

@alex3619 @user9876 There's a lot talk about the gut influencing the outbreak of auto-immune illnesses. I've heard that too much hygiene, esp. in food (like we have in most economically richer countries) can cause lower diversity in gut flora, which can then make you more susceptible to a variety of health issues, among others auto-immune. Although this doesn't explain the outbreak of post-ebola syndrome... I also wonder if the difference is just that people with no means to go to the doctor never get diagnosed, and many times just die without anyone knowing what they had?
 
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Undisclosed

Senior Member
Messages
10,157
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skipskip30

Senior Member
Messages
237
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