Small B12 brand experiment

[JCamp]

That IS very odd, considering how well it works for most other people, and considering that you do respond well to the Jarrow mB12.

I definitely understand the financial concern -- the oil is not cheap. But it's not worth wrecking your teeth. Have you tried other delivery mechanisms? Maybe try crushing the Jarrow tabs and mixing with skin cream, and make your own transdermal? Or maybe try some of the other transdermal solutions on the market?

Have you tried the Country Life 5mg sublinguals? That specific product contains no sugars, no acids, and no folic acid. The sweetener used (xylitol) is actual *beneficial* to tooth enamel.

Thanks, that's a good suggestion with CL. I'm way too sick to crush tablets and make up my own oil at this time. If I recall correctly, @Journeyman had teeth problems from Country Life despite the absence of sugars and acids?

 

[Oci]

Thanks, that's a good suggestion with CL. I'm way too sick to crush tablets and make up my own oil at this time. If I recall correctly, @Journeyman had teeth problems from Country Life despite the absence of sugars and acids?

As a newbie, I'd really like to know what it does to your teeth? Thanks, Oci

 

[garyfritz]

People using these B12 supplements often have to take many sublinguals to get the dosage they need. That means having those tablets in your mouth for many hours a day, gradually dissolving. Which, if they contain acids, means you're bathing your tooth enamel in acid all day. If they contain sugars, it does what you'd expect if you were eating sugar all day.

Bottom line, it can eat away your enamel.

 

[Oci]

People using these B12 supplements often have to take many sublinguals to get the dosage they need. That means having those tablets in your mouth for many hours a day, gradually dissolving. Which, if they contain acids, means you're bathing your tooth enamel in acid all day. If they contain sugars, it does what you'd expect if you were eating sugar all day.

Bottom line, it can eat away your enamel.

Many thanks, Gary for the information. I had not realized that I might need to be taking many of these sublinguals! Is this true of most people on PR? So much to learn! Oci

 

[garyfritz]

Yes, it's very common. We tend to need a lot more B12 than "normal" people, and it's tough to deliver it in a way that we can benefit from it.

The thing with B12 is that it's hard to absorb. You can't just swallow a pill. You have to soak it in through your oral mucosa or other skin. With sublinguals, it appears that you get the best results if you spend a lot of *time* with the sublingual in your mouth, so it gradually dribbles the B12 into your system. If the sublingual dissolves really fast, then it might spike your serum B12 levels for a short time but then it fades away and you don't get as much benefit from it.

So sucking on a sublingual so it's gone in 60 seconds means you will absorb / use very little. Placing it between your lip and gum makes it last a lot longer than putting it under your tongue, and you'll get a lot more benefit from it. Breaking a tablet into quarters, and using all four quarters over time, seems to work better than using the whole thing at once.

So if you need a lot of B12, you may end up with sublinguals in your mouth for many hours of the day. Do that for a year or two, with a sublingual that contains acid, and you can do serious damage to your teeth.

That's one of the reasons I strongly prefer the transdermal oils. Plus it just works a lot better for me (and a lot of other folks).

 

[Oci]

Yes, it's very common. We tend to need a lot more B12 than "normal" people, and it's tough to deliver it in a way that we can benefit from it.

The thing with B12 is that it's hard to absorb. You can't just swallow a pill. You have to soak it in through your oral mucosa or other skin. With sublinguals, it appears that you get the best results if you spend a lot of *time* with the sublingual in your mouth, so it gradually dribbles the B12 into your system. If the sublingual dissolves really fast, then it might spike your serum B12 levels for a short time but then it fades away and you don't get as much benefit from it.

So sucking on a sublingual so it's gone in 60 seconds means you will absorb / use very little. Placing it between your lip and gum makes it last a lot longer than putting it under your tongue, and you'll get a lot more benefit from it. Breaking a tablet into quarters, and using all four quarters over time, seems to work better than using the whole thing at once.

So if you need a lot of B12, you may end up with sublinguals in your mouth for many hours of the day. Do that for a year or two, with a sublingual that contains acid, and you can do serious damage to your teeth.

That's one of the reasons I strongly prefer the transdermal oils. Plus it just works a lot better for me (and a lot of other folks).

Many thanks again, Gary. How do I determine if I need B12 and if so, how much? I am COMT++ and VDR Taq ++ and so according to Dr Yasko, I should use adeno and hydroxy B12. It sounds like transdermal is the way to go. Oci

 

[garyfritz]

I can't tell you that. I think it's individual for every person. Every combination of SNPs seems to require different treatment. Some people can barely tolerate a few micrograms of B12; others take 1000x as much. Some need methyl B12, some need adenosyl, etc.

Personally I use 3 doses of the methyl/adenosyl transdermal per day, which is 3x more than is "supposed" to be necessary even for someone with CFS/ME. But if I take less, my symptoms flare up; as soon as I take the B12 (and/or sometimes methyl folate), they calm down again. Like within minutes.

So it's very clear to me how much I need, but that doesn't help you any. You'll probably have to experiment like the rest of us did and find out what your particular body needs.

 

[Journeyman]

Ouch!! I'm glad I didn't do the sublinguals very long, and I was pretty careful about finding sublinguals without acids or sugars. And that was lucky. I thought it was a good idea, but I really had no idea it could do SO much damage.

I thought it was difficult enough finding an effective B12 sublingual, yet alone one that didn't damage enamel. What brand did you use noting that it seems only Enzymatic Therapies B12 sublingual seems to be the brand recommended by those in the know here.... Thanks for the detailed multiquote reply btw: I'm wondering how hard i'll have to press to get the plunger back up... I used a paper click straightened out but its still splattering out a pitiful amount...

 

[garyfritz]

I used Country Life 5000mcg. Only that specific size. The other CL B12 products have acids, sugars, and/or folic acid. But the 5000mcg has only Xilitol for a sweetener, and that's supposed to actually strengthen tooth enamel. Unfortunately they dissolve really quickly, so I broke the tablets into quarters and placed the pieces between my lip & gum.

I tried the Enzymatic and didn't like it. It didn't seem to work any better than the CL for me. And it was 1mg, so I had to have a mouthful of sugary (fructose) pills seemingly all day long. (I was taking 25-30mg of the CL every day.) At least it doesn't have any acids in it.

Yes, the "push up the plunger with a paper clip" trick is a bit iffy. It's hard to get it to push up, some times it pushes up really abruptly and splashes out the top, sometimes it pushes up too far, etc. I think it works better to unscrew the top of the almost-empty one and a part-empty one and pour them together. Don't pour in too much or it will overflow when you screw the top back on. Guess how I know.