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Oxalate Dumping - a Probiotic Solution?

Discussion in 'Gastrointestinal and Urinary' started by Asklipia, Jun 6, 2015.

  1. Asklipia

    Asklipia Senior Member

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    I am starting this thread for all of us to go on contributing with our experience. Dabbling in calcium redistribution on the one hand can bring huge benefits, but it will also release oxalates and be very painful.
    @adreno, @alicec, @Crux, @Gondwanaland, @JPV, @Sidereal, and others.
    Maybe you care to post here the gist of what you brought to other threads?
     
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  2. Asklipia

    Asklipia Senior Member

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    As to oxalate reducing probiotics, one of those is Oxalobacter formigenes.
    I pursued this a bit.
    The product Sidereal mentioned is OCHEK capsules, made in India by LaRenon.
    They contain each :
    - Bifidobacterium lactis 300 million,
    - Lactobacillus rhamnosus 300 million,
    - Lactobacillus acidophilus 400 million,
    - Oxalobacter formigenes 700 million,
    - FOS 100 mg.


    There seems to be another product from FOURRTS, another Indian company, with the same content, called OXALOBACT, in capsule and tablet form. Not to be confused with OXABACT, a product of the Swedish OxThera.
    This OXALOBACT seems more widely distributed and some studies have been done using it.

    And there is also NEFROPIK capsules, same composition, made by Bionic Remedies, also in India.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2015
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  3. Sidereal

    Sidereal Senior Member

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    Great info, thanks Asklipia. I would like to get my hands on on some of this stuff.
     
  4. Asklipia

    Asklipia Senior Member

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    So would I.
    I would not be surprised if blurry vision/cataracts/myopia were correlated to oxalate problems. Maybe a way to improve eyesight?
     
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  5. Sidereal

    Sidereal Senior Member

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    My vision definitely gets even more blurry when I am dumping like right now.
     
  6. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    I have been wondering about our corneal herpes lately o_O
     
  7. Crux

    Crux Senior Member

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    Here's a right great paper about oxalates, their metabolism, and oxalate degrading bacteria.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4235702/

    It lists about 18 strains that may degrade oxalates. Even L. Acidophilous is included.:cautious:

    The paper brings up some good points. One is that oxalic acid can be formed in the liver from other substances, such as proline and glycine. ( could make gelatin problematic for a time)

    Another good point is that when these bacteria are administered, there needs to be available oxalate for them to survive. An extremely low oxalate diet may starve them.

    I wonder if oxalate degrading bacteria can be found on high oxalate plants, organically grown? (One could soak the plant in water for a time, then drink the water.) Maybe this is far fetched...
     
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  8. Sidereal

    Sidereal Senior Member

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    I believe this is what @Asklipia did with cabbage leaves?
     
  9. Crux

    Crux Senior Member

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    Did it help at all ?

    If not, does cabbage produce much oxalate? Maybe beet greens or spinach would be better. Shops tend to over wash their produce, so it would have to be kind of dirty produce.
     
  10. Asklipia

    Asklipia Senior Member

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    I don't know if it helped, I was just doing this hoping to get better, together with taking MK4. And I did get better. I have stopped though, because I could not find the outside cabbage leaves anymore, then forgot.
    I notice that Lactobacillus plantarum is also an oxalate degrader. They do not mention in that list Clostridium butyricum but I wouldn't be surprised if it too was an oxalate degrader.
     
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  11. Sidereal

    Sidereal Senior Member

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    It's a pity none of those products have just Oxalobacter for those who cannot tolerate Lactobacilli. Acidophilus in particular causes hell for me.
     
  12. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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  13. Sidereal

    Sidereal Senior Member

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  14. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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  15. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    Be sure to have eaten some oxalates... Yesterday my husband had pizza for dinner :eek:, and I gave him acidophilus, rhamnosus, reuteri at bedtime. No pain so far. I am curious about his next BM though :cautious: (gluten has usually caused him IBS-D).
     
  16. Sidereal

    Sidereal Senior Member

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    Woodrat feces, yum.
     
  17. Crux

    Crux Senior Member

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    So. There is a use for Canine feces.:lol::vomit:
     
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  18. Sidereal

    Sidereal Senior Member

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    I'm not excluding all oxalates, far from. I'm just avoiding the high ox foods.
     
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  19. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    Me too, sort of. I am being careful to not make my meals with exclusively hi-ox foods as I have been know to do recently :redface:
     
  20. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    Thank you so much @Asklipia for starting this thread! Now that I identifyied a nemesis, it will be very helpful to have everyone else's inputs and ideas!

    Other threads about oxalates at PR:
    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...oxalate-salicylates-scd-gfcf-diet-info.25135/

    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/low-oxalate-diet-experience.24100/

    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/calcium-oxalate.10944/

    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/high-oxalates-b12-deficiency.36187/

    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...this-road-to-health-hell-with-oxalates.35408/

    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/anyone-concerned-about-oxalates.8573/

    And other PR members who have been aware of it are @helen1 @Sherpa @Kathevans @August59 @shoponl @globalpilot @determined @juniemarie and other people who apparently aren't active members anymore.

    I am particularly concerned about bad advice like calcium and vitamin C supplementation.
     
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