Phoenix Rising: The Gift That Keeps on Giving All Year Long
This holiday season Jody Smith turns her eyes to the people of Phoenix Rising and gives thanks for you all ...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Methylation making me angry?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by minkeygirl, Jan 26, 2015.

  1. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl But I Look So Good.

    Messages:
    4,678
    Likes:
    4,639
    Left Coast
    I started noticing the anger yesterday. It's not that I'm constantly angry but the smallest annoyance gets me really mad and then I seethe. I don't know for sure if it's the methylation but I don't know what else it could be.

    II'm taking 1600 mcg metafolin, 3 mgs MB12, 500 mgs LCF and 2 mgs AD12. I supplement with potassium throughout the day for heart palps, around 1500/day.

    I read on some previous threads about people who took the AD12 only one or 2 days a week in a higher dose so this morning with that in mind, I just took 1 mg MB12. About 45 minutes into it I noticed that I was still really brain fogged so grabbed 2 mgs of AD12 and the fog lifted.

    Something feels out of whack but I don't know how to fix it. More MB12 with the AD12? I tried some Hb12 yesterday in the middle of the day instead of mb12 and it did nothing for me. I also take my B12 an hour before folate. Too much folate?

    Oh and I'm not sure but something is drying my eyes. I have that but seems worse.

    Please dumb down your answers. Too much info is too much for my brain.

    Thanks for the help

    And I broke the rules and did not go low and slow. I can back down if I need to but I'm feeling pretty good (for me)
     
  2. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,425
    Likes:
    1,020
    Is 1600mcg your startup dose of folate?
    Or did you start lower and slowly got there?

    I ask because 1600 is moderately high, and methylfolate can give that sort of problems. In any case try going back to 400mcg for 2-3 days and see what changes. See if your mood improves... if it does you're probably pushing it too high.

    cheers
     
  3. mgk

    mgk Senior Member

    Messages:
    149
    Likes:
    276
    I can relate to the feeling you're talking about. I think some people call it "wired." For me, it was initially wired & tired, but then it became an energetic wired like what you're describing. I haven't tried LCF yet though. From what I've gleaned by digging around the forums, that's what seems to cause the biggest energy boost.

    Here's what Fred has to say about it:
     
  4. picante

    picante Senior Member

    Messages:
    760
    Likes:
    864
    Helena, MT USA
    Thanks for this, minkey. I'm experiencing something similar. To clear the stupor, I've tried
    malic acid - this helps with grogginess triggered by food
    OKG - helps a little
    hydroxyB12 - moderately helpful with or without mfolate
    AdB12 with AL-Carnitine & mfolate - most helpful
    The irritation/anger/seething is something I've been waking up with. I'm sure it's neurotransmitter imbalance, and it goes away about mid-morning after I've gotten part of my protocol down the hatch. I tried choline bitartrate, but I think I took too much, and wound up in the fog/stupor.

    There are at least two different approaches, so you haven't broken any rules. "Start low, go slow" is appropriate if you discover sensitivities, especially neurological symptoms when taking AdB12 and/or LCF/ALCar. But in your case, the AdB12 is actually helping the neurological symptoms. Maybe you need it every day, at least for now.

    I hope others chime in here, since I can't tell you the why or wherefore. I still haven't figured out the optimal balance of MeB12 & AdB12 for myself.
     
  5. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl But I Look So Good.

    Messages:
    4,678
    Likes:
    4,639
    Left Coast
    @PeterPositive I started at 800 mcgs/day but I went up pretty fast. Also at that time I didn't realized I should get my MB12 going first.

    I already took 800 mcgs/ today but I'll lower it tomorrow. I'll stick with the AD12 and the LCF. I just got another 1000 mcg MB12.

    @mgk I'm not wired I'm angry. Very different. I can feel it now, I'm ready to explode and it can last.

    I get very confused and overwhelmed when too many people chime in with different things to do.

    @mgk I can't read anything freddd writes. It's not dumbed down enough, the contrast in fonts makes my brain explode. It's easier for me to ask on an as needed basis.
     
    picante likes this.
  6. mgk

    mgk Senior Member

    Messages:
    149
    Likes:
    276
    I understand your frustration. I'm sorry and I hope you feel better soon. *hugs*
     
  7. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl But I Look So Good.

    Messages:
    4,678
    Likes:
    4,639
    Left Coast
    picante likes this.
  8. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,318
    Likes:
    6,424
    Northcoast NSW, Australia
    Hi minkey. Have you been on 800mg LCF for long? It can cause anxiety, so maybe also irritability.:hug:
     
  9. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl But I Look So Good.

    Messages:
    4,678
    Likes:
    4,639
    Left Coast
    Interesting @ahmo I did just raise it yesterday because I thought it was helping. I'll back off on that too, although I didn't feel any anxiety per se.

    I do feel the major rage is gone since taking niacin and some HB12. I still have some seething going on but that is nothing compared to how I felt before. I wanted to punch my fist through the wall.

    I can "feel" my brain is better. It'll also be interesting to see if my hip pain goes away. I couldn't figure that out either.
     
  10. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,342
    Likes:
    1,177
    Ventura, CA
    I actually made some posts about this same issue before, Fred also mentions that the LCF especially can trigger rage and other emotions as part of the limbic system healing. He says if it is too intense to back off on doses or put it back in at a later time for healing, granted I kind of also felt the same symptoms with the methyl folate too.

    Are you balancing your other b vitamins and minerals too? It would be helpful to be sure things like b2, magnesium, and b3 are at optimal levels especially since they same most prone to depletion by methylation. I had the super painful hip "tightness" on one side too, that was a while ago and happened when I really upped the doses of the methyl folate.

    It felt like some kind of tendon irratation or raised inflammation from healing. I also find if I feel too inflammed at times turmeric/japanese knotweed really helps to settle things down. By the way I am also happy to hear you are doing so much better! If the protocol is making you feel so well aside from the rage then its a good dosage for you to be at, just got to tweak things around to work with the uncomfortable emotional symptoms which I understand as well haha.
     
  11. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl But I Look So Good.

    Messages:
    4,678
    Likes:
    4,639
    Left Coast
    Since taking niacin I feel hugely better. I'm still off a little but my brain feels much more normal and my heart palps are in control again. I did this to myself so I'll back down and start from scratch tomorrow with my B12's and then add mfolate.

    My minerals are ok, I get magnesium with my calcium, B maybe not so much. I'm taking 1 mgs B6, 500 B5. I have problems with B's because I can't get past the smell and taste. I've been looking at a B multi which people have commented doesn't taste or smell bad but haven't gotten it yet.

    Yes just my right hip feels tight. I'll just ride it out.

    @Martial Can you put in some paragraphs? Thanks
     
  12. boo85

    boo85 Senior Member

    Messages:
    178
    Likes:
    40
    minkeygirl, I believe, maybe someone can confirm this for me, but niacin (B3) stops methylation in its tracks, so that's probably why you're feeling better. If you feel better because methylation is stopped or at least slowed down, you might want to cut your folate and B12 doses in half or quarters and stick to it for a month and see how you feel. See if you can heal slowly so it's not so overwhelming for your body and mind.

    I can relate to feeling wired and tired. Sometimes I feel tired and crash, othertimes too wired. It's a balance to achieve, for sure. :(

    I take up to 4000 mg of potassium per day, so unless you know you have kidney problems, you could probably up it even further, if you need to. Hypokalemia is a much more likely concern than hyperkalemia.

    Someone told me to take folate an hour BEFORE B12, not the other way around like you're doing. Apparently so that the B12 has something to work with when it gets healing straight away? I've found quite instantaneous effects of B12 so it must work quicker that methylfolate. If you take B12 for methylfolate it will be trying to heal without anything to work with.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2015
  13. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl But I Look So Good.

    Messages:
    4,678
    Likes:
    4,639
    Left Coast
    @boo85. I knew niacin stops methylation which is why I took it, just in case. I plan on stopping the mfolate completely and regrouping with other stuff. I never had a problem with 1000 mcg MB12 so I'll start with that. Not sure about the AD12 which seems to clear some of my fog.

    Until the anger I felt really good. I was not wired at all, a nice "energy" that wasn't too overwhelming. Not really energy, it's hard to explain but a combination of less fog and being "clearer".

    I know to go low and slow, I was just a dumbass.
     
  14. boo85

    boo85 Senior Member

    Messages:
    178
    Likes:
    40
    Are you sure you don't want to try with only 200mcg methylfolate? Compared to the 1600 mcg of MF you're taking now, it's only a little bit and will give the B12 something to work with to heal.

    You're doing a good job with your potassium. I ran into big trouble by not being aware that B12 sucks your potassium levels when it's trying to rapidly heal the body so quickly. Low potassium (from B12) gave me delerium and fast heartbeat that I felt lucky I didn't have a heart attack.

    It's a good sign if you reach a nice calm energy instead of being wired.

    However, I think @Freddd said that when the body is healing, especially the nerves in the brain, it can affect mood and cause people mood swings and even anger.

    I understand about wanting to take higher doses to heal quickly. Some recommend going low and slow, others to saturate to body with vitamins so the body has enough to heal with. Both approaches are valid, but it's a matter of working out which approach is best for you, by trial and error...

    Make sure to double-check your suppplements today so you don't have any hidden B6 in any vitamins. B6 causes neuropathy just as bad or even worse than low B12. If you're taking B6 you could be fighting a losing battle anyway by taking B12 if you're still taking B6. Let me know the dose if you find any hidden B6.
     
  15. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl But I Look So Good.

    Messages:
    4,678
    Likes:
    4,639
    Left Coast
    I can try 200 mcgs Mfolate. I have the solgar 800 mcg

    As for B6 I started it for adrenal support and I believe because someone here said to, but don't hold me to that. I'm sure I don't have b6 in anything else I take because I don't take a multi and everything else is single except minerals.

    I have no problem stopping it.

    I have had no cramping issues at all from low potassium. When I started taking it to offset issues with methylation, that's when I saw it helped my feeling my heart beating.

    Aside from wanting to kill someone today (and I may still lol) I was feeling pretty good so I know I need this.

    I never said I was wired. Someone else said they were but I didnt.
     
  16. boo85

    boo85 Senior Member

    Messages:
    178
    Likes:
    40
    I've also found that supplementing can make me moody and feel like crying one second for no reason...

    I would stop the B6 if I were you. How much B6 were you taking and how long for?

    I had B6 hidden in my magnesium, which I took faithfully for years. About 1 - 2 years after first starting the magnesium (with hidden B6), I developed neuropathy, which I think could have been low B12, but it could have been caused by the B6 damaging my nerves.

    NO doctor, NO naturopath, NO neurologist picked up on this. Doctors think Vitamins are way of getting "expensive urine" and that there are no side effects because vitamins are water-soluable and will be peed out of the body. Again, not true!

    The damage of low B12, and toxic amounts of B6 (anything more than what you'd get in food) can take YEARS to heal, and even then it's not guaranteed... Just because the body has low B6 or higher B12 it doesn't mean everything is "ok" because a lot of times that is just the start of the journey for the body to heal itself.

    Read here for more info on B6 toxicity from supplements - http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Nutrition/B6-Toxicity/show/2642?page=1

    Be prepared that when you stop B6, you may go through withdrawals and a time of healing, which can make you feel worse. Foods high in B6 can trigger bad patches as well.
     
  17. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl But I Look So Good.

    Messages:
    4,678
    Likes:
    4,639
    Left Coast
    I've only been taking 1-2 mgs/ day for maybe 2 weeks. As I said there's is no b6 in anything I take or I wouldnt have supplemented.

    I'm getting overwhelmed with too much info. I appreciate it but it's too much.
     
  18. sregan

    sregan Senior Member

    Messages:
    655
    Likes:
    374
    Southeast
    Sounds like neurotransmitters getting out of balance. I believe I went through this stage. The "not putting up with the slighted bit of BS", very easily set off. It passed with time and as I upped my Mfolate
     
  19. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,342
    Likes:
    1,177
    Ventura, CA
    You don't have anything to worry about with only 1-2mg, you could just drop it and get the same amount from a banana a day lol. Sounds like you are doing really well though, the anger issues just kind of need to be ridden out to a degree goes away in time.
     
  20. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl But I Look So Good.

    Messages:
    4,678
    Likes:
    4,639
    Left Coast
    I'm still annoyed about something stupid someone said to me this morning but my brain feels better. There was no way I could ride this out. I've never felt such anger.
     

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page