lansbergen
Senior Member
- Messages
- 2,512
@Woolie Glad we have you to decipher it
Welcome to Phoenix Rising!
Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of, and finding treatments for, complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia, long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.
To become a member, simply click the Register button at the top right.
So there is physical dysfunction in the brain, but no physical disability.
I think there are so many other simpler reasons why connectivity patterns may be disrupted in MECFS. The disease affects your cardiovascular system, and this has an enormous influence on how your brain functions, especially prefrontal cortex. That's a much better and simpler explanation for these kinds of abnormalities than the neural-psychological one.
So a disfunctinal brain does not impact physical ability?
Needless to say - defects in areas which deal with ... does not mean that you can do ... exercises for that area, or therapy to modulate that effect much, if the biochemical defect remains.
Perhaps ability, but not capacity. The body is still fully capable.So a disfunctinal brain does not impact physical ability?
It could be that the negative adaption seen are in fact because rerouting has been done in other parts of the brain due to the disease affecting some cells more than others.
basically that the physical symptoms aren't real, and just perceived due to the brain processing problems
Even if we accept their premise, what in the world is not physical about the brain? Consciousness is just an extremely complicated chemical/electrical/biological- physical state.
Yes (according to this theory though I think refuting it should be fairly straightforward eg our blood/muscles would be entirely normal and when people like Ron Davis and Julia Newton do in vitro research we would be no different from controls= not the case)So there is physical dysfunction in the brain, but no physical disability.
Physical damage is irrelevant for purposes of obtaining benefits if it's not causing actual physical disability.
Yes, that's an interesting idea. The brain abnormalities might be compensatory. I think there was a study some time ago of fibromyalgia that supported that idea - it showed that for the same level of externally defined pain, the FM patients actually showed a dampened neural response to the pain (I think it was reduced activation in dorsolateral prefrontal cortex?). That to me suggested that FM patients might have learned to modulate their response to pain in a way that healthies could not.Plus, 'negative' adaption might not in fact be negative if you take into account the fact that current understanding of what brain regions 'do' is murky at best.
It's hard to figure out Wyller! He's been a strong proponent of CBT/GET and has reportedly made a lot of problems in Norway but in his last study he actually proposed that Epstein-Barr virus played a role in ME/CFS and urged more research in that area.
I do not think that causing the ME to be EBV but rather an unknown virus;
this virus is always active (such as hepatitis c or AIDS); I believe I have transmitted
the ME to some: family, relatives and friends, even 25 years after the onset in myself;
contagion should occur through body fluids including saliva
Because the study suggests that there is no problems with immune or energy systems – but simply with the wiring of the brain – which can be overcome through CBT. Thus, there is also no need to avoid exercise (or work). If we support this kind of research we are digging our own graves.Even if we accept their premise, what in the world is not physical about the brain? Consciousness is just an extremely complicated chemical/electrical/biological- physical state.
Because the study suggests that there is no problems with immune or energy systems – but simply with the wiring of the brain – which can be overcome through CBT. Thus, there is also no need to avoid exercise (or work). If we support this kind of research we are digging our own graves.
ME is very unlikely to be confined to brain connectivity, and very likely to be involving body-wide failure of energy and/or immune systems. This makes brain imaging studies of ME worthless at best, and dangerous at worst.
Well yes, in my (and others) view they are conflating correlation with causation.Aren't they just making unsupported assumptions too?
ME is very unlikely to be confined to brain connectivity, and very likely to be involving body-wide failure of energy and/or immune systems. This makes brain imaging studies of ME worthless at best, and dangerous at worst.
What do people prefer: psychological accounts of ME that are completely up-front in their claim that beliefs, emotions, behaviours play a central causal role in the disease? Or ones where the essentially psychological nature of the account is hidden behind neural terminology?Well i would say we don`t know that yet, and brain imaging studies do show abnormalities, therefore they are worthwhile in my opinion.
What do people prefer: psychological accounts of ME that are completely up-front in their claim that beliefs, emotions, behaviours play a central causal role in the disease? Or ones where the essentially psychological nature of the account is hidden behind neural terminology?
As somebody who understands computers and has read a bit of cognitive science I hate this phrase and think it shows ignorance of both the brain and computers (where does firmware, microcode etc fit)('its not a problem with the hardware, its the software,' and so on).